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Force of Nature

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Stryfer

Junior Member

12-23-2012

It just aint FoN anymore.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

12-24-2012

Quote:

But we just want to know if we can get a high MR item again. Right now its pretty much 50MR on any single MR item max. MR prices got buffed, Mpen and ARpen got changed in a way that buffs it(that is why rune stats were altered for these things) so in the end mages come out stronger. Mr is still kind of tough to get.
Pen Mages in S2 had, when optimized - 48 magic penetration and 46% magic pen.

Mages in s3 have a maximum of 38 magic penetration and 40% magic pen, with the formula reversed.

So, while the penetration changes makes it feel like penetration is stronger for mages against MR, in reality, mages got something like a 2-3% damage bump - which we've hit some other ways by reducing the total ability power possible on a slot-by-slot basis. (Deathcap, for example, had it's AP coefficient reduced from 30% to 25% and provides less AP on its own.)

Additionally, for tanks with huge innate MR steroids (like Rammus, for example) - their magic resistance shell actually becomes a lot harder to "burst" through with penetration - the penetration changes along with the flat penetration available means that if you can crack 200 MR, you will be far more durable than you were before in that period. (This is only really relevant to Singed/Rammus/Leona, to be fair - as most other characters have to try really hard to get above 200 MR).


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Terrornoid

Senior Member

12-24-2012

I am quite glad FoN is gone for all of the reasons Xyph has mentioned.

Previously, it was this:
You need magic resist, are you a tank?:
Yes --> Build FoN
No, Deeps --> Build BV
No, Support --> Build Aegis

Now there are options to choose from based on what you are fighting against. Item choice is now more relevant to game play. Personally, options make things more fun to me.

Besides, I previously always felt that AP was really screwed against FoN. Every stat limited your options greatly. You could:
a) Burst the target knowing you are going to do greatly reduced damage
b) Burst the target knowing the HP/5 is going to greatly reduce your damage/poke (via healing over time).
c) Cry as the tank dodged all your spells and is b-lining into your face
d) Completely ignore the tank and feel useless against 40-60% of the enemy team

Overall, I'm enjoying the changes, even though I kinda miss the Ol' FoN. I think the game is healthier and more fun for AP players now.


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MTempty

Senior Member

12-24-2012

But... But... Singed...


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Crabmeister

Member

12-24-2012

As someone who plays many tanks and is an avid lover of Singed, the removal of Force of Nature made me very sad. If I were playing a jungler such as Trundle, Sejuani, or Nautilus, Force of Nature was a priority buy for my playstyle. The high regeneration provided by FoN coupled with high MR early in the game is able to swing many fights into my favor. Several times after initiation, if it were not for FoN, I would not have been able to catch my targets, endure initial burst, survive through the fight and retreat when low HP. As a Singed player, Force of Nature was -so- important to me. The playstyle of luring people into chasing the low-HP Singed with high regeneration and being just slightly fast enough to keep them interested in the chase, but unable to catch up is in all seriousness the most fun I've had playing any champion in this game. The movement speed, health regen, and magic resistance are key to my playstyle for the majority of the tanks in this game. Augment Shen's low speed with Force of Nature while being more durable and resistant to burst? Yes, please. Same for Nautilus, Sejuani, Malphite, Leona, and all the other tanks that I love to play.

Lastly, there is a simple wish that I have when I play this game. One singular goal that, when achieved, brings me more joy than any other objective in this game. More joy than victory, more joy than a huge KDA. One -true- calling; nay, a need! An OBSESSION!

Gotta go fast.

Think Ricky Bobby. Think Sonic the Hedgehog. Think of mankind breaking the Sound Barrier.

Riot, I just want to go fast. No matter which champion, no matter which role, no matter win or lose: I gotta go fast. The removal of FoN has hindered me in my quest for speed.
Please bring it back. Pretty please?


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

12-24-2012

Quote:

Lastly, there is a simple wish that I have when I play this game. One singular goal that, when achieved, brings me more joy than any other objective in this game. More joy than victory, more joy than a huge KDA. One -true- calling; nay, a need! An OBSESSION!

Gotta go fast.
Swiftness/Mobility + Alacrity/Homeguard/Furor are the intended 'high-speed' builds for Tank Junglers - as the Golem Soul provides them the tenacity they need to avoid being locked out for long period fights (and also burst mitigation.)

You may of course, opt out of Golem Soul by grabbing Mercury Treads and selling Spirit Stone early - but your speed options should mostly come down to whether you are going for high speed boots or not.

If you're having speed difficulties, I heartily recommend that you prioritize Tier 3 enchantments or trying out some of the other boot types - they mesh much better now than before with the other options that you have.

Quote:

But... But... Singed...


I will say that Strength of Spirit was the one thing that never really materialized as helping out Singed as much as it should have - I over-estimated the impact this would have on his regeneration, mostly because traditionally in S1, Strength of Spirit would probably be more accurately titled 'Strength of Singed.'


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Terrornoid

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Crabmeister:
As someone who plays many tanks and is an avid lover of Singed, the removal of Force of Nature made me very sad. If I were playing a jungler such as Trundle, Sejuani, or Nautilus, Force of Nature was a priority buy for my playstyle. The high regeneration provided by FoN coupled with high MR early in the game is able to swing many fights into my favor. Several times after initiation, if it were not for FoN, I would not have been able to catch my targets, endure initial burst, survive through the fight and retreat when low HP. As a Singed player, Force of Nature was -so- important to me. The playstyle of luring people into chasing the low-HP Singed with high regeneration and being just slightly fast enough to keep them interested in the chase, but unable to catch up is in all seriousness the most fun I've had playing this game. The movement speed, health regen, and magic resistance are key to my playstyle for the majority of the tanks in this game. Augment Shen's low speed with Force of Nature while being more durable and resistant to burst? Yes, please. Same for Nautilus, Sejuani, Malphite, Leona, and all the other tanks that I love to play.

Lastly, there is a simple wish that I have when I play this game. One singular goal that, when achieved, brings me more joy than any other objective in this game. More joy than victory, more joy than a huge KDA. One -true- calling; nay, a need! An OBSESSION!

Gotta go fast.

Think Ricky Bobby. Think Sonic the Hedgehog. Think of mankind breaking the Sound Barrier.

Riot, I just want to go fast. No matter which champion, no matter which role, no matter win or lose: I gotta go fast. The removal of FoN has hindered me in my quest for speed.
Please bring it back. Pretty please?


Try Twin Shadows. The item is AMAZING on Singed.

You get MR, like FoN. You get some MS, which is always good on Singed. Finally, you get an amazing active for several reasons:
You get ghosts that SLOW your enemy. They effin' slow them. Holycrap.
They find gankers. Farmin' between turrets? NP. Scout AND slow them.
The item is proactive instead of reactive. Proactivity makes fun games. Reactivity does not.
It doesn't cost as much as FoN so you can build more cool things, like Liandry's.

Seriously, try it.


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USnip

Member

12-24-2012

I wonder why strength of spirit would be pushed as the gateway to a stat. I never found it very appealing when it was good, just powerful, and I'm not sure why I would enjoy myself more if it were good again.


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JHVH

Senior Member

12-24-2012

I love Strength of Spirit. I really like it for Muramana on champions who can get broken with mixed damage.


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MTempty

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Xypherous:
Swiftness/Mobility + Alacrity/Homeguard/Furor are the intended 'high-speed' builds for Tank Junglers - as the Golem Soul provides them the tenacity they need to avoid being locked out for long period fights.

You may of course, opt out of Golem Soul by grabbing Mercury Treads and selling Spirit Stone early - but your speed options should mostly come down to whether you are going for high speed boots or not.


Swiftness boots leave you without tenacity as a tank from merc treads=bad idea. I truly believe in that most s3 team comps, you need tenacity as a tank.

Alacrity is admittedly a nice upgrade but also costly. that gold can go a long way and will usually be built way into lategame, where everyone already has maxed their cc.
homegaurd lasts for 8 seconds which is great for defending base or teleport ganks... however, in teamfights in normal situations, it is worthless.
golem soul is a jungler only item. You want to talk about wasted stats? Golem is nothing but a lot of wasted stats.
it is as you said, a jungle item. If it had something like hp or mr instead of jungle damage and built out of ruby or negatron, It would be infinitely more useful.