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are more junglers viable with the new changes?

yes, more champions can be used now 37 25.69%
no, a lot of junglers that used to be good are now struggling and barely viable 75 52.08%
not sure, need more time to decide 30 20.83%
screw yordles 37 25.69%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters 144 .

new jungle does NOT allow for a wider variety of junglers

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rada3

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Riot said they wanted more jungle options to become available in season 3 but i feel that the exact opposite has happened. I've noticed that several of my junglers in particular that i did extremely well with in season 2 have fallen off super hard. These include alistar, amumu, nautilus, and several others. I noticed it especially with alistar. I used to play him as a tanky AP jungler but now i pretty much have to ignore the jungle and just gank. If you don't start machete at the start of every game then your clear speed and health will greatly suffer. I don't see how it opens the jungle up to more people when it was easier back in season 2 to clear the jungle with boots 3 pots than it is now with machete and FIVE health pots. Many junglers are now completely forced to finish wriggles where they weren't forced to do so before. I have noticed this mostly with udyr who i used to go double gold/10 and then normal items instead of wriggles but now he really doesn't have as much of an option to avoid wriggles. Again i repeat, the new jungle changes have not added very many new jungle options but they have done havoc to some of my favorite AOE junglers. Now i pretty much just jungle lee sin or noct and i'm getting very bored of it.

Ok so now that all that is out of the way, how can we fix this? The biggest thing I feel is to nerf the level 1 base health of all the big jungle monsters (big wolf, big wraiths, red lizard, blue golem, big golem at twin golems). If Riot wants to make those monsters scale harder into the lategame so by 20-30 minutes they are at the same place that they would be with the current setup at 20-30 minutes then i'm ok with that but the early jungle needs to be made easier for AOE champs.

I personally haven't seen skarner at all lately in the 1400 to 1500 range. It's a shame because i used to think he was like one of the top junglers at the end of season 2.

We have seen the rise of 2 champions in particular, jungle cho and jungle malphite. The reason why this champs are strong is because most of their jungle damage is single target (their burst is pretty weak and doesn't come close to 1 shotting jungle camps) BUT they do have some AOE as an afterthought (cho's E, malph's W). I'd like to also like to point out that single target tanks with slow clear times (mostly shen i'm complaining about here) have gotten completely destroyed by these recent changes. They can't clear very well and they aren't godlike gankers.

There is a reason why we are now seeing things like noct running EXP quints in the jungle, it's because most champs suffer really hard in the early levels and want to get 6 as fast as possiblle so they can just focus on ganking, not jungling. Heck i've even taken up shaco again recently because i see no point in going for difficult jungle clears when you could be ganking every second and be helping your team that way.

Just for full disclosure, I am a gold ranked player in both season 2 and season 3 who mains mid and jungle. Now i try to just play mid because i consider the jungle NOT TO BE FUN. Riot's like #1 thing is to keep the game fun so i really hope they find a solution to the current state of affairs.


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footfoe

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Well they made the point that AOE wouldn't be the most important thing for jungling anymore. However without leashes and the stronger jungle buffs it really limits the ability of junglers to have a good clear time.

I haven't found any champion that can come out of the jungle at level 4 and do anything. Though i think that was also the idea. They thought lvl 4 ganks were too early.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Voted for all options since you people don't know how to make polls.


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rada3

Senior Member

12-23-2012

then make your own buddy


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daddysclapinz

Recruiter

12-23-2012

rengar can't jungle anymore.........rebuff him..........5 pots to simply clear the jungle=terrible jungler


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youmadbroimnasty

Senior Member

12-23-2012

There's a giant variety of junglers now and since when was machette 5 pots a bad start there are still a lot of junglers who can gank before level 4 just practice jungling more


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Dorsia

Senior Member

12-23-2012

The entire point was to reduce the ease of a level 2 isntagank for fb. Now if you want to do it, you probably wont be at full hp, or you won't have the ms from the boots. Starting machete is pretty much mandatory.

ALL of cho's jungle damage is aoe (minus ult), same with malphite (I use e in the jungle, not q)

Amumu and naut have NO problem in the new jungle. I think you need some more practice


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chomcham

Senior Member

12-23-2012

^^^this


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I cook Teemos

Member

12-23-2012

Most of the new jungle issues seems that they are mostly mindset issues. I run all of my junglers the same without any issues, I just had to make a few adjustments to my rune page but other then that I am fine. I always start with Cloth armor and 5 hp pots then bump up to the razors. This works for me fine with a 9/21 mastery page based on AP/AD changes.


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Maokai: Still very strong
Amumu: Stronger than S2
Skarner: About the same as S2
Naut: Weaker than S2 (by design)
Udyr: Stronger than S2
Alistar: Rendered unplayable (by design)

Naut is a champion that has an extreme amount of CC and teamfight presence, eons more than any other jungler, without the need to have a substantial amount of farm. This by necessity means that his early game has to be significantly weakened, since he is less reliable on getting early ganks than someone like Lee is. Riot has already said they will revisit the idea of buffing the early ranks of his shield if needed to keep him viable, and if he ends up needing to return to fountain before even doing a full clear, that might be a necessity.

Alistar was a problem in S2 that was born out of a serious flaw in the jungle design and mechanics. Because the early clear was feasible for anyone who could do any amount of AoE damage, and it was correct for carries to farm the jungle after the initial clear, Jungle Alistar became the ultimate highlight of the mistakes with the Season 2 Jungle. He was a moving tank with 2 instances of hard-CC on a relatively low cooldown, especially with Blue Buff, and little to no need for any substantial amount of farm (particularly with gank money), and means there is very little opportunity cost to his carries farming the Wraiths, Wolves and Golems. He was never supposed to be a jungler, that role came as a result of the flaws in the S2 jungle. With the removal of Alistar as a terrorizing ganker, they can remove some of the nerfs he received last season to make him better in the Support role.