Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

First Riot Post
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Evelios

Senior Member

10-24-2010

but isn't nidalee's heal an anti-whatever? because it heals them but you also want to use the active speed buff? just sayin


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Flak Maniak

Senior Member

10-24-2010

So what kind of pseudorandom mechanic do you envision? Something making procs per X attacks consistent?


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SonicTheHedgedawg

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Senior Member

10-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Use Pattern Mis-matches Surrounding Gameplay
I won't go into too much detail on this, but the simple example is giving a melee DPS ability to a ranged DPS character -- the use pattern on that is to force move to melee, then use. This does not feel good, and should be avoided. I'm sure you are all thinking -- but WoW mages are ranged, and they have all these melee abilities! Well... Frost Nova is an escape, and the various AEs are fit around a _comprehensive_ different mage playstyle that no longer is truly 'ranged' and is mechanically supported across the board by Blizzard -- so the rules don't apply there ;p
What about Lux's passive?

the damage on her passive is BARELY noticeable and might as well not even exists once the laning phase is over because you'll almost never be able to take advantage of it.

She's a character built to support her team from the backlines and, yet, she has a passive that requires her to run up and hit things. It has ZERO cohesion with the rest of her skillset.

It pretty much only helps her farm with luminous singulariy, but unless you're building attack speed lux (lol if you are) then you're not even really going to get the full effect from that because you can't hit all the minions before it disapears.

It's essentially Akali's on-hit effect on her Q attached to a character who will normally be outside of range and who shouldn't run into range to use it


One way I think would work pretty well for solving this issue would be to lower the numbers on her passive but allow ANY allied champion to activate it. (if this is too powerful what about ONLY champions that she has a prismatic barrier on?)

Alternatively, keeping the numbers the same, but allowing Lux to activate her passive with spells would work too.


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

10-24-2010

Shurelia said that they were either going to allow Lux to apply her passive with auto-attacks or activate it with spells.


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SonicTheHedgedawg

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Senior Member

10-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBeNirvana View Post
Shurelia said that they were either going to allow Lux to apply her passive with auto-attacks or activate it with spells.
the auto-attack application makes it more useable for farming I suppose, but still doesn't really help the problem with it being nigh useless against champions. The other fix helps it some I suppose.



Someone else mentioned something about seeing Shurelia say that, but I searched and couldn't find a sound byte anywhere. You got a source for me?


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

10-24-2010

I think it was in one of the many Lux Sucks topics.


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Zulunko

Senior Member

10-24-2010

Zileas, you should compile all your knowledge you can about game design into one sticky-d thread (or even one Game Design book you could sell for $$). Would read, no matter how long it is.


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Wingflier

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Senior Member

10-24-2010

Quote:
Great post. The same idea i was trying to tell in my post.
Thank you.

Quote:
Edit: Reading a bit further behind. I see wouldn't care if invis was take out. Also you keep bragging about how you are a professional game designer and we are just players. If you were that good you would probably be working at blizzard or EA or Bioware or something. But since most of your Design Anti-Patterns are curently in most succesfull games, then i think its obvious........ You are not that good of a game designer as you think.
Yeah when Zileas and I were talking over e-mail, he did that kind of nonsense to me too. Zileas thinks that because he's a game designer at Riot, and because he worked with Blizzard briefly, he knows everything there is to know, and he is automatically smarter than us.

When I brought up the fact that the last several heroes Riot has introduced to LoL - including heroes like Xin Zhao, Vladimir, Kog Maw, Miss Fortune, Galio, Lux, etc. were just extremely boring rehashes of heroes that have already been done, and that they haven't added anything to the game, his reponse was hilarious. He said that some senior leads at successful game designer companies like a few of them, so they were definitely good design.

Well I hate to bust your bubble Zileas, but you just practiced a logical fallacy called Appeal to Authority, and completely missed the point. I don't care if Barack Obama thinks Lux is the coolest hero ever, that does not make it good hero design, and that does not make it good for the game. We already understand that most people think your new heroes are cool (or in the case of Lux, they will be reworked until they reach that status, heh), what does that have to do with anything?

Heroes that add depth to the game and make it more dynamic/complicated may not always be thought of as the COOLEST heroes ever. Sometimes you make a hero that not everybody is going to jiizzz over the first day it comes out so they can waste a bunch of RP and play it death before they get bored of it in 2 weeks and buy the next one. Your company may have had a lot of success with this kind of rudimentary hero prototype, but I'm sorry to say that sooner or later people are going to start catching on. All you are doing is selling them champions that already exist in the game, with a different skin and different skill names. Eventually people are going to realize how shallow League of Legends really is, and that instead of making the game deeper, Riot was content to stick to these antiquated set of hero/game design rules that outline everything in black and white, so that their players would never have to do any "research", god forbid the game take skill.

I truly worry about the direction LoL is headed if many of these rules and concepts continue to be practiced.


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Lyov

Member

10-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingflier View Post
Thank you.

Yeah when Zileas and I were talking over e-mail, he did that kind of nonsense to me too. Zileas thinks that because he's a game designer at Riot, and because he worked with Blizzard briefly, he knows everything there is to know, and he is automatically smarter than us.

When I brought up the fact that the last several heroes Riot has introduced to LoL - including heroes like Xin Zhao, Vladimir, Kog Maw, Miss Fortune, Galio, Lux, etc. were just extremely boring rehashes of heroes that have already been done, and that they haven't added anything to the game, his reponse was hilarious. He said that some senior leads at successful game designer companies like a few of them, so they were definitely good design.

Well I hate to bust your bubble Zileas, but you just practiced a logical fallacy called Appeal to Authority, and completely missed the point. I don't care if Barack Obama thinks Lux is the coolest hero ever, that does not make it good hero design, and that does not make it good for the game. We already understand that most people think your new heroes are cool (or in the case of Lux, they will be reworked until they reach that status, heh), what does that have to do with anything?

Heroes that add depth to the game and make it more dynamic/complicated may not always be thought of as the COOLEST heroes ever. Sometimes you make a hero that not everybody is going to jiizzz over the first day it comes out so they can waste a bunch of RP and play it death before they get bored of it in 2 weeks and buy the next one. Your company may have had a lot of success with this kind of rudimentary hero prototype, but I'm sorry to say that sooner or later people are going to start catching on. All you are doing is selling them champions that already exist in the game, with a different skin and different skill names. Eventually people are going to realize how shallow League of Legends really is, and that instead of making the game deeper, Riot was content to stick to these antiquated set of hero/game design rules that outline everything in black and white, so that their players would never have to do any "research", god forbid the game take skill.

I truly worry about the direction LoL is headed if many of these rules and concepts continue to be practiced.
You've essentially summarized and reasoned why I've bought HoN.


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

10-24-2010

I'd have moved on to HoN if it had ability power scaling in addition to everything else it's got.

As it is, I'm annoyed with mages in all MOBA. Mages in League of Legends get scaling items to their abilities but not their attacks. Mages in HoN get scaling items to their attacks but not their abilities. DPS Champs in both games get both. I'm really sick of the focus that all the MOBA games give to DPS and tanks over mages.