Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

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threelite

Senior Member

10-16-2010

I've known all of this for so long, just never seen it put to words and categorized as such.

Really blows my mind how many examples from other games that would fall directly into these categories for the exact same reasons.

Zileas, did you write the book on fun?


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SuzumeStjohn

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Senior Member

10-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Given the choice between mechanics that encourage beating someone due to out-knowing some obscure detail and beating someone due to out-playing someone, I would choose out-playing because it is more interactive for the player in game. If at all possible, choose mechanics that encourage players to adapt, rather than memorize set move and reactions.

Games and Mechanics with essentially 'hidden rules' that aren't partially understandable in-game aren't terribly interesting because then what influences winning or losing isn't strategy or actions inside the game but whether or not players read an FAQ before they entered queue.

I'm sure there are tons of counter-examples but it's a lesson in compromise at the end. You can't do everything perfectly following all the rules, but you try to make sure you follow many more good patterns than bad ones.
Zileas himself said that as a design and art team, with tool tips and proper effects/particles that you can alleviate the 'burden of knowledge'. Yes hidden rules are probably bad design, but if you can make an interesting ability, and animate it correctly, there should be no confusion on what is happening. I don't understand what the problem is here, do the art and design teams not talk to each other?

It seems like (and I'm using this as a recent example) Swain's ability would have had an easier fix with a different set of particles/animation. Instead the ability was nerfed (Nerfed as in being more kid friendly, than less effective, which is the original idea for the brand).

I just see you guys giving lots of reasons as to why/how you do things, and then there are repeated examples of you guys going against what you say. Makes it very hard to know when you guys are following your own guidelines or not.


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Rezyk

Senior Member

10-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gale View Post
So yes you're right that there should be no mechanics in game where all choices are wrong, but there should be more mechanics that force you to pick between two evils.
It's okay to present a choice between:
* evil #1 that is sometimes the right choice and sometimes the wrong choice
* evil #2 that is sometimes the right choice and sometimes the wrong choice

The anti-pattern is concerned with presenting a choice between:
* evil #1 that is almost always the right choice
* evil #2 that is almost always the wrong choice

It doesn't mean the choice has to be scrapped; it can be adjusted into the "sometimes" case.


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Saffire

Senior Member

10-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
?????
Probably in reference to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lomar View Post
Legal is still not sure about the slippers. The children, Cadwell. Think of the children!


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Sakagami0

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Senior Member

10-16-2010

Question:
Why add Hexdrinker?
Its Anti-combo, Conflicted purpose, and Unclear Optimization.

To the player using it:

Anticombo-> It gives attack dmg (that means most carries will get it for the MR boost to not die so fast vs casters). Ok so thats good, but it give more attack dmg when you have 1/3 of your hp! Comparing it to that WoW comparison (of the Warrior something and something about getting hit and doing more dmg like counter striking), it has a lot of similarities.

Conflicted purpose-> Getting hit to have increased dmg? What? I want to get closer to death so I do more damage?


To the player playing against someone with it:

Unclear optimization-> Should I nuke now? or w8 until the carry has around 40% hp to nuke with my most damaging skill before the 30% hp thing get activated. But if one of my teammates has the same thought as I do, shouldn't I nuke first for optimal dmg before someone fcks things up?
(hurts Annie the most imo because she initiates often with tibbers stun then combo)

No I'm not leaking, all of this is on PTR forums.


I also believe TF's Destiny has unclear optimization and thats why many players don't use it often and try to reserve it even through its not that smart to (but is sometimes is--see? Unclear). When you destiny its like "oh shoot, if I can't gate anywhere, I'm wasting my half my ult!"


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Sindivyn

Senior Member

10-16-2010

Nice read, but why cant we have a soul ring type item?


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SonicTheHedgedawg

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Senior Member

10-16-2010

Can we counter "Burden of Knowledge" by improving death recap and making it automatically pop up?


For example, let's say we incorperate that bleed DoT that we talked about earlier.

What if, you died and that did a lot of damage to you.

What if, when you died, death recap automatically popped up and circled "Bleed DoT" as a major source of damage and said "Click for hints on how to counter"

And you clicked on it and it showed you a little screenshot of what it looks like when the enemy casts the DoT on you and told you in about one or two sentences:
"XXXXXX casts a spell on you lasting for 5 seconds which causes you to take more damage the further you walk while affected. If you have low health and you don't have anywhere safe to run to, it might be a good idea not to move very far until the spell wears off"


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Nerf Hammer

Senior Member

10-16-2010

Im going to throw out a spell that goes against quite a few of those rules...

Overdrive.


<SHOCK!>


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Morrowlife

Senior Member

10-16-2010

Nice read! May be worth comparing every ability and champion to these and see if we can help improve the game? I might start working on something like that.


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GENERAL NUTBAKED

Senior Member

10-16-2010

i'm afraid that with the AoE metagame the fun is slowly starting to not exceed antifun.