Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

First Riot Post
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magicblitz

Senior Member

01-24-2012

whats skarners ult then?


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Zyxy

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Member

01-24-2012

Regarding Champion Ailities and Bushes:
After reading through various parts of this thread I am curious about the design thoughts of whether or not a given spell is visible when cast in the bush.

For instance when an enemy champ is in lane and the following champ is in bush:
1. Janna's Howling Gale is visible to enemy champ /* tested */
2. Nunu's Absolute Zero is invisible to enemy champ /* tested */
3. Nidalee's Spear /* I've heard this is invisible, but not tested */

Is this intentional?


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Mordaine

Junior Member

01-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyxy View Post
Regarding Champion Ailities and Bushes:
After reading through various parts of this thread I am curious about the design thoughts of whether or not a given spell is visible when cast in the bush.

For instance when an enemy champ is in lane and the following champ is in bush:
1. Janna's Howling Gale is visible to enemy champ /* tested */
2. Nunu's Absolute Zero is invisible to enemy champ /* tested */
3. Nidalee's Spear /* I've heard this is invisible, but not tested */

Is this intentional?
Intentional?... I don't know if you actually know this, but the developers of LoL aren't exactly the best game designers ever. Actually come to think of it, the only reason why this game has so much attention drawn to it is because almost everybody that tries it out will have a glorious moment in it because of how noob friendly it is. The bad part is that this game remains noob friendly till the end, although you will get facerolled by other players that know some decent combos... sometimes some unstopable combos... which is sad really.

What this designer is actually trying to tell us here is that they have no freeaking idea how Icefrog does it, but he does. 80% of the warcraft modders (custom maps) know more about competitive gaming than all the designers from lol put toghether. One day you will see that, everyone will and it's sad really, sad that this game get's this much attention when everything the developers are feeding to the players are the same **** heroes over and over again with what has become generical spells tipical to lol. Examples would be the dash which half of the heroes have, a missle that stuns, a freezing attack, an ultimate that drops the HP of players around, a snare skill shot... these are all abilityes that you find on so many lol champions, DotA had something like this in the past but now most of the generical abilityes got new tweaks, made them to do more than just a simple stun.


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202halffound

Senior Member

02-04-2012

Couldn't Rupture be thought of as a smaller version of Veigar's stun that damages instead of stuns?


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dRunk3n DuCk

Senior Member

02-04-2012

Great post but one problem I have is the burden of knowledge. Most players in this community ignore even the simplest nukes/pokes and claim its OP because they cant dodge or position there champ. BoK is a perception view of each player. While player x feels this is too hard to understand player y knows how it works and can build strategy or counters to it. The simplier you make it for player x the more exploitation player y can do with it, hence makng that skill OP in the eyea of player x. All of a sudden you have a Balanced risk reward skill overnerfed because it became "Anti-Fun".


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Fox P McCloud

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Senior Member

02-09-2012

Zileas...how long does a hard CC have to be before it is considered "anti-fun"?

For example, if there was ever a champion who had no CC on his Q, W, or E, but had a single-target CC for an ult (on a very long cooldown of 120-180 seconds)...what is the maximum duration that would be allowed for a silence and stun, respectively?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyxy View Post
3. Nidalee's Spear /* I've heard this is invisible, but not tested */
I really hope this is fixed, if only for Dominion.

It's a pain in the butt when Nid is *just* inside the FoW---you know she's there, but you have to keep holding your position...then, out of the blue, half your HP is gone. It doesn't seem really intuitive/fair for her spear to be invisible, even if it's flying out in the open, if she threw it from the FoW. You can't dodge it, really--the best thing you can hope to do is move around in random patterns...even then, you still can't dodge it, per se.


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ABlindWatchmaker

Member

02-09-2012

While I agree on most of these I actually prefer Burden of Knowledge like Rupture simply for the fact that while it might be frustrating at first once someone does research they know more about the champion/hero and therefore know more about the game. IMO if someone is frustrated by something and searches about it to actually LEARN more about the game it's well worth the frustration. Also nice necro whoever did this


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

02-10-2012
282 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox P McCloud View Post
Zileas...how long does a hard CC have to be before it is considered "anti-fun"?

For example, if there was ever a champion who had no CC on his Q, W, or E, but had a single-target CC for an ult (on a very long cooldown of 120-180 seconds)...what is the maximum duration that would be allowed for a silence and stun, respectively?
Any duration is anti-fun. But the abilities also create gameplay. For smaller stuns, the gameplay exceeds the anti-fun and thus is OK. At some point, the gameplay created by these abilities gets outweighed by the anti-fun of a long stun. I think it's a feel thing. Generally when you start talking about repeated micro-stuns or 5+ seconds, you are probably in that territory. Before that, it's more subjective.


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Zwizzy

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Senior Member

02-10-2012

Its funny you mention DnD for this. When i DM I essentially removed all those insta kill mechanics and absurdly powerful traps. My philosophy was: a treasure is always a treasure, and my traps are meant to punish you, not outright kill you.

As to rupture, I hated that skill. I never knew what to do about it until someone was yelling at me. Stop moving you idiot. After I died they explained it-.-"


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Hobbito

Senior Member

02-10-2012

Dota 2 took a great step with BS by giving clear visual and audio effects as to when somebody has been ruptured.