Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

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Anonymous123123

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
It really depends. Sometimes these choices are fun, other times, they are orthogonal and very confusing.
I think the 500 dmg vs 50% slow thing is not anti-fun, but rather something that can be used to separate the good from the best players. Players who are able to make good choices in certain scenarios should be rewarded - case in point: knowing when to use spells as finishers or initiators. Otherwise, this is a solid post


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JoeTheDuckRider

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Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post


Fun Fails to Exceed Anti-Fun
Anti-fun is the negative experience your opponents feel when you do something that prevents them from 'playing their game' or doing activities they consider fun. While everything useful you can do as a player is likely to cause SOME anti-fun in your opponents, it only becomes a design issue when the 'anti-fun' created on your use of a mechanic is greater than your fun in using the mechanic. Dark Binding is VERY favorable on this measurement, because opponents get clutch dodges just like you get clutch hits, so it might actually create fun on both sides, instead of fun on one and weak anti-fun on another. On the other hand, a strong mana burn is NOT desirable -- if you drain someone to 0 you feel kinda good, and they feel TERRIBLE -- so the anti-fun is exceeded by the fun. This is important because the goal of the game is for players to have fun, so designers should seek abilities that result in a net increase of fun in the game. Basic design theory, yes?
So.. why is Tryndamere's ult still how it currently is? I'm not raging that it's OP, UP, easily countered, blah blah - Simply stating that (FOR ME) it is never fun in any situation unless you are the Tryndamere. Especially when combined with ghost/flash/spin. It is the most annoying thing in the game.


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MG z3rg3m3ow

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgivable Nar View Post
So.. why is Tryndamere's ult still how it currently is? I'm not raging that it's OP, UP, easily countered, blah blah - Simply stating that (FOR ME) it is never fun in any situation unless you are the Tryndamere. Especially when combined with ghost/flash/spin. It is the most annoying thing in the game.
Delete Teemo.


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Duskofdead

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Know what I want for this list of patterns?

A YOUTUBE VIDEO NARRATED BY SHURELIA!

On topic: I know that the "Zileas, x is anti-fun" is practically a meme on the forums anymore, but when I was reading Zileas's definition of anti-fun, what immediately sprang into my mind was being completely zoned out in lane. There are champ combos that can easily do this to the majority of other champions and it very definitely is... well, anti-fun. By the definition provided in the original post.


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Duskofdead

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgivable Nar View Post
So.. why is Tryndamere's ult still how it currently is? I'm not raging that it's OP, UP, easily countered, blah blah - Simply stating that (FOR ME) it is never fun in any situation unless you are the Tryndamere. Especially when combined with ghost/flash/spin. It is the most annoying thing in the game.
I'd have to agree with that. And I'd have to say it applies to the Karthus ult too. Especially since there's no way to stop him from casting it, not even killing him.


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DJ Radix

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Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgivable Nar View Post
So.. why is Tryndamere's ult still how it currently is? I'm not raging that it's OP, UP, easily countered, blah blah - Simply stating that (FOR ME) it is never fun in any situation unless you are the Tryndamere. Especially when combined with ghost/flash/spin. It is the most annoying thing in the game.
I happen to think stuns, taunts, and fears that don't require a skill shot are far more annoying than tryn's ult. Those are a bit more push button receive bacon imo.

Tryn's ult allows more counter-play. Those other abilities remove your ability to react unless you are running a particular item build or using cleanse.

And even with cleanse, you still have that bit of reaction-delay that allows them to close in before you can pop it.


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Duskofdead

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaytalis View Post
I happen to think stuns, taunts, and fears that don't require a skill shot are far more annoying than tryn's ult. Those are a bit more push button receive bacon imo.

Tryn's ult allows more counter-play. Those other abilities remove your ability to react unless you are running a particular item build or using cleanse.

And even with cleanse, you still have that bit of reaction-delay that allows them to close in before you can pop it.
As any squishy in the game I would gladly trade dealing with being stunned by Taric near my turret over seeing a Tryndamere spin in over the jungle wall and start autoattacking me. I have way more options in the former situation and almost 0 in the latter.


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DJ Radix

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Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskofdead View Post
As any squishy in the game I would gladly trade dealing with being stunned by Taric near my turret over seeing a Tryndamere spin in over the jungle wall and start autoattacking me. I have way more options in the former situation and almost 0 in the latter.
You're comparing apples and oranges there. Similarly I'd rather be chased onto my summoner platform by Tryndamere than be stunned by Taric while my team is running from a team fight at Baron.

Tryndamere is strong at tower-diving, yes. He's strong at 1v1, yes. But if he tower-dives Taric, Taric will stun him as soon as he pops his ult, leaving him to die once the duration ends.

I did the same thing today when I was playing Ashe in middle lane. Tryndamere was jungling. He came to gank, I retreated to tower, harassing with Volley on the way. He continued, tower-diving me, starting his auto-attacking and drawing turret aggro. We were both lvl 6. He popped his ult, I popped Mine. Advantage Ashe, and I picked up the kill.


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Duskofdead

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaytalis View Post
You're comparing apples and oranges there. Similarly I'd rather be chased onto my summoner platform by Tryndamere than be stunned by Taric while my team is running from a team fight at Baron.
Tryndamere is one of the few champions left in the game where having a specific summoner is all but required to deal with him at all, or else get ready to hand him quadrakills. And even then if he comes in at you with full health you are just prolonging the inevitable, you're not going to out damage a Tryndamere at close range and you aren't going to get away from him between the spin and the mocking shout.

Tryndamere's ult along with Karthus's easily is, and has always been, in the top 5 hated champions/champion ults in the game, and there's a reason for it. Of course, if you ask Trynd players or oneupsman, they'll say the reason is "lol ur bad l2p" but nevertheless, these are extremely frustrating mechanics to play against because in both cases they're much more almost no risk, high reward mechanisms, especially compared to their counters. Using exhaust on Tryndamere by no means guarantees survival or getting away.


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Echoing

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskofdead View Post
I'd have to agree with that. And I'd have to say it applies to the Karthus ult too. Especially since there's no way to stop him from casting it, not even killing him.
Actually, if you kill Karthus while he's trying to cast his ult, it'll go on cooldown without doing damage.

Good luck with that though.