Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

First Riot Post
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Dragonglove

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Awesome View Post
(By the way, have you had a chance to review *that email* I sent you recently? I'm sure you've been incredibly busy with the patch coming up next week, but I'm about to pop with anticipation for hearing your response...)
You and me both buddy.


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DSG

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrosed View Post
I would like to bring the anti-logical status that is fear or at least how it is coded.
Say you're running away from a fiddlesticks and he hits you with his fear skill. Most of the times you'll turn your back away from your scape route and run into his direction. But... isn't HE the source of your fear? Why would someoen cowered in fear would RUN IN THE DIRECTION OF THE SOURCE?
I've been troubled and annoyed by this since I was hit with a fear that looked like a taunt.
I hope you can fix that, mr. Zileas.
Bump


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Galgus

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

I like the balance discussion in the OP- and it makes me want to think of a way the active one-hit buff could be used.


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Requitalz

Senior Member

10-15-2010

I disagree with the bit about unclear optimization, Kunkka's ult was one of the best in the game once you learned how to use it properly. Skills with a steep learning curve that are used to their maximum potential should be rewarded by them being superior to other spells (as Kunkka's ult was). Also it's quite "fun and rewarding" to have put enough work into learning a character that you can be a big part in helping your team win. On the other hand, simple skills on characters like Annie and Garen that don't have multiple situational uses get less fun and rewarding over time since you're just doing the same thing with them every game.

So basically, I'd rather see more unique characters and abilities with learning curves than the recycled old stuff that we keep getting every patch.

My .02


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RagnarokChu

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

I wonder what's the REAL big deal about rapture.

Oh noes a single target ultimate being used to kill you, obviously it's different from that other single target ultimate being used to kill you.


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Baromen Ironsack

Senior Member

10-15-2010

I have to say it's refreshing to see a company work towards accessibility without sacrificing depth. I was the biggest Rainbow Six fan there was and I'll never forget the interview I watched with the lead designer who was responsible for my favorite game in the series (Rainbow Six 3) who was about to launch his next project Rainbow Six Vegas. Over half of the interview was talking about how they'd simplified the game to make it more appealing to more people and had taken away a lot of barriers to entry. Accessibility was a word he used at least 10 or 15 times and it made my heart sink.

Why?

Because every time I've heard a developer use that word in relation to a sequel to a game I've found fun and satisfying it's meant I shouldn't bother to buy the upcoming title because they were going to take away the satisfaction of victory and make it bland.

If more developers understood that you can engineer depth into a game while making it easy to understand and implement for the newest of characters while maintaining the learning curve that makes it satisfying... I probably wouldn't hate Ubisoft like I do now.

Easy does not mean more fun. Shallow does not mean easy. Satisfaction comes from accomplishment which does not come from random chance. Complexity does not equal depth.

I like you guys more and more. Thank you so much for the post. Very refreshing.


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nvmvoidrays

Senior Member

10-15-2010

zileas reppin.


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Jatt

Associate Game Analyst

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Power Without Gameplay
This is when we give a big benefit in a way that players don't find satisfying or don't notice. The classic example of this is team benefit Auras. In general, other players don't value the aura you give them very much, and you don't value it much either. But mechanically, it is very strong. Suppose we gave a +15 damage aura... Really powerful, not that appreciated. On the other hand, if you cast the aura and gave them flaming weapons, which on next hit burst for 100 damage, and we could do it once every 20 seconds, you'd get about the same power, and people would value the effect more. The problem with using this anti-pattern is that you tend to have to 'over-buff' the mechanic and create a game balance problem before people appreciate it. As a result, we tend to keep Auras weak, and/or avoid them altogether, and/or pair them on an active/passive where the active is very strong and satisfying, so that the passive is more strategic around character choice.n
But you released Sona. I'm confused.


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Ponies Gonna Pwn

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Adjudicator

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord GiantR View Post
D) Tp scroll damages you after you survive on 200 and die anyways :P.
How exactly does a TP scroll hurt you? o.O


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Rebonack

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
oh right, reminds me, ill go add the false-choice anti-pattern

that's another serious flaw with rupture
Heh...

Except with poor Bloodseeker there were plenty of heroes that could simply kill him if they decide to stand in place rather than running away. An interesting hero certainly. Mostly annoying due to his spammy silence though =X

One of the problems with burden of knowledge is that there's only so much you can do visually to cue someone into what's going on. I'm tethered to Morg, there's a unpleasant sound that's slowly ramping up. Something bad is about to happen, I had best run away. That was done quite well in my opinion.

But skills like Amumu's Despair... He's crying. Why would that be a threat? There comes a point where the new player is going to have to read up on a champs skills to figure out what's going on.

In the end Rupture ends up as little more than a long duration single-target root with a bit of a nuke tacked on. And as an added bonus a root is significantly easier to understand while at the same time serving exactly the same purpose in game, 'Oh bugger, I can't move. Here comes Bloodseeker and his team.'