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Calling Lanes, Que Dodging, 3 year olds, and why Riot should take a stance

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Blaine Tog

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Making dodging easier is directly at odds with pick order being pre-chosen. If the penalty for dodging is small or nonexistent, the last-pick of each team would just dodge as soon as they learned they had to play support.


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Goodguy Hopper

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Blaine Tog:
Making dodging easier is directly at odds with pick order being pre-chosen. If the penalty for dodging is small or nonexistent, the last-pick of each team would just dodge as soon as they learned they had to play support.


I didn't really want to imply we shouldn't have a dodge penalty at all.


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Blaine Tog

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Alyssa Riel:
I didn't really want to imply we shouldn't have a dodge penalty at all.
Sure, but the dodge penalty is already pretty light: you have to wait a few minutes before playing again. Loosening it to something like "always wait 5 minutes between dodges" would make it way too easy to decide Soraka or Heimer Mid is a total troll, or you thing Caitlyn is a bad AD carry so you dodge, or someone else already called and picked the role you wanted.

I agree that dodging is a powerful tool in the arsenal of players who don't want to play with jerks, but it's easy to abuse.


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Goodguy Hopper

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Blaine Tog:
Sure, but the dodge penalty is already pretty light: you have to wait a few minutes before playing again. Loosening it to something like "always wait 5 minutes between dodges" would make it way too easy to decide Soraka or Heimer Mid is a total troll, or you thing Caitlyn is a bad AD carry so you dodge, or someone else already called and picked the role you wanted.

I agree that dodging is a powerful tool in the arsenal of players who don't want to play with jerks, but it's easy to abuse.


I also don't want to lighten the time penalty


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SmokingPuffin

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Alyssa Riel:
Queue Dodging-
In solo queue an individual player represents roughly 10% of the result of a match, individually players have little control over the course of the game, and the fact that no matter how good you are at the game you can still suffer losses to bad team mates is very infuriating, and this negative emotional build up is bad for the individual, his future teams, and Riot as a gaming company. The single most powerful tool riot has given players that can help them feel empowered is the ability to bow out of a queue in which they feel their team is not up to par. Their decision could be based on their team mates lolking, their teams champion picks, or even just the attitude of their team mates in chat. Either way it was less of a toxic environment for both themselves and their would have been team mates who they had a low opinion of. The decision to dodge is not an entirely unskilled one either. Rapidly assessing the comparative skill level between your team and your opponents team given limited information is in fact a highly skill intensive decision.


I think picks and bans are a part of the game -- once you've started picks and bans, you've started playing a strategy game. It really bothers me that teams that get outpicked just leave with no penalty, and teams that do the outpicking get no reward.

Quote:
Alyssa Riel:
What does this mean for you Riot -
You should support the idea of player's dodging for ANY reason because when they dodge it means they have a low opinion of their team mates and they are preventing a toxic environment which will inevitably reflect poorly on you as a company. I am not unaware of the need to prevent people from using the dodge tool as a means of trolling, but when you say "This player kept dodging games until he/she found one they could win, and that is wrong." I look at it and think that is hardly wrong they where willing to pay a penalty of their time and effort to assure a victory, and have continued to demonstrate skill in actually winning the games they select to play, quite the opposite of wrong that is smart.


I don't want to have to play this stupid metagame in order to maximize elo. I want maximum elo to come from playing the games you've been dealt.

Quote:
Alyssa Riel:
Another issue involved with dodging are players who intentionally try and get others to dodge. This is to my mind a pretty deplorable act and is exemplary of abusing the system I moments ago was praising. Rather than dig through tons of data and try to identify players who are in a high percentage of dodged games wouldn't it be simpler to allow a player to report "why" or more accurately who they dodged because of? If this was allowed it would rapidly identify players who are causing others to dodge via trolling and quickly eliminate those players.


I think could be a good thing, but the potential for abuse is pretty high too. It's not any higher than other forms of reporting, though, so maybe the tribunal could handle it if they added the pregame chat to the system?


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Spew

Member

12-24-2012

Did not read


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Engix

Senior Member

12-24-2012

One thing everyone can do is get above 1550~ elo. People stop asking for roles and do whatever the hell the team needs up there. Its nice not gonna lie.


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Pushover

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Some problems with this idea of having a captain is that
1) Suppose that I'm a toplane player but my second role is support. I will be put into support role until I look very much like a support main. I still want to top, though.
2) Suppose the captain is duo queue with someone else. Then they can just give themselves the two roles they want, then give the others out. Duo queues get a 40% chance to have effectively first and second pick.
3) This forces you to assign a meta. Riot is for emergent gameplay, so doesn't really want to assign a meta.


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RabidLlama1

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Honestly, I think you've ignored one pretty important consequence--the effect on how long it takes to start a game. Even with a 30 minute penalty, it can sometimes take up to 20-30 minutes to begin a game due to repeated drops, and especially drops after going through the entire pick/ban process. If people can drop if they don't like the team comps, if they don't get their favorite role, or because their team isn't skilled, and if they're not getting punished in any ways, or only being punished minimally, I think the time it takes to get a game could begin to average 20-30 minutes. I do think there's a problem, but eliminating que dodge penalties isn't the solution.


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Goodguy Hopper

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Pushover242:
Some problems with this idea of having a captain is that
1) Suppose that I'm a toplane player but my second role is support. I will be put into support role until I look very much like a support main. I still want to top, though.
2) Suppose the captain is duo queue with someone else. Then they can just give themselves the two roles they want, then give the others out. Duo queues get a 40% chance to have effectively first and second pick.
3) This forces you to assign a meta. Riot is for emergent gameplay, so doesn't really want to assign a meta.


1) could have it show top ratings in all roles
2) If TC is duo queue and assigning his buddy a role that someone else would be better at he would lose more by % then he would assigning the best roles
3) Sad but true. Worth it? not sure