Calling Lanes, Que Dodging, 3 year olds, and why Riot should take a stance

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Morpf

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01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyssa Riel View Post
Some of the up coming changes to solo/duo queue could medicate this problem, but I suspect that it will not. So I am going to keep trying to get a response from riot on this issue.
Which changes so you mean?


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Goodguy Hopper

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01-16-2013

@Morpf

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/n...ng-soon-ranked


In the upcoming changes (assuming I understand them correctly) players are going to feel a little less pressure to win every single game, because their team mates will remain more consistent from game to game until you move out of your current "bracket" or league. It will help reduce some frustration for players. For example; players who play around the 1400's won't have to worry about getting bumped back down into a range where games are frequently determined by a young player just entering ranked (the 1200 -1300's). Similar examples are probably for other elo ranges. I just used this one because i tend to float around 1200-1500.

Changes like this can have a larger impact on the communities attitude even if that is not strictly what the changes are intended to do. So this update could help relieve some of the pressure from ranked, and by doing so create a friendlier environment, and one possible outcome of a friendlier environment is that players are less pressured to play only their best role every time because they "have" to carry.

I think it is fairly unlikely that this update will cause such a massive reaction, but it is possible.

-Aly

Ps. - Don't misunderstand I am really happy to see league moving to a starcraft like bracketing system. I mentioned that we should a long time ago


edit - found it - I kept it saved so i could throw it back at Lyte if he let us down. So far haven't needed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyssa Riel View Post

My final though would be to divide your current ~1 year season into 4 quarterly events. Then create divisions that you are placed in that you can not go above or below until the next change of quarter. Then promote the top 10% of players from each division and demote the bottom 10% from each division. This sort of feels like the go or starcraft ratting systems, both of which are fairly solid. You don't have too much pride to copy someone if they are getting it right i suspect


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Snakeblade

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01-18-2013

I strongly believe communication and teamwork should be at the heart of champ select and pick order doesnt support this where as "calling" followed by a discussion if there is a problen does support better player behavior. It makes total sense to me that using somone who is most confident in a role would be best for the team. I would not want to end up top lane just cause im last pick and no one wanted it and i know im not confident in it while firt pick takes mid because its available but knows little and gets immediately counter picked.

My other issue is with allowing dodgers. Any time spent playing aram and you will learn that some people will always dodge unless they think they have a CLEAR advantage. This is not smart its trying to go further then you belong based on chances rather then skill. In any sport the top team does not choose to "dodge" any team who is near their level and instead only challenge the lowest team. It is the exact same idea in league and i will never support being able to trade luck for skill.


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The Stallion

Senior Member

01-18-2013

No matter what, I'm gonna keep calling top, keep dodging when I see a red match history on the majority of my team, and continue to mute the kids that think calling me a 3 year old is witty.


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K1nky Viking

Member

01-18-2013

full support, hopefully their new ranking system might entail some of these suggestions.


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Dantone

Senior Member

01-18-2013

I mostly agree with this. I haven't played ranked this season, but I mostly play draft. I tend to just offer to fill roles to avoid contention, because I find that when a team starts arguing before the game even loads, your chances of winning/even having fun (I've had more fun with a positive team that loses, even in spite of abuse from the enemy team) are drastically decreased.

However, this means I play jungle or support 90% of the time. My favorite role is top. I play top maybe one in 15 games. I also am pretty good mid. I've played mid once in the past 3-4 weeks.

I don't mind filling roles from time to time. I actually enjoy both support and jungle, they're just not my favorite. It's very hard for me to assess (maybe even impossible) my teammates on the spot, so how can I judge when I should assert myself into a role and when I should fill? The only fair way is that role filling responsibility should be fairly distributed amongst all players. The only way to do that is for Riot to take a stance, and have it be pick order, as players pretty evenly get 1st, 2nd, etc picks.

I would even be willing to give up my earlier pick from time to time so that players could play a role they are better at, as anyone who wants to win should.


AS for queue dodging:
I think that Riot should not make it easier. If everyone played the games they were given (minus troll games), then they would still reach their ranking after X number of games. Thus, the way to get better should be playing more games, not hand selecting your teammates.

It's true that your ELO is a result of a culmination of the teams you played on, but you are the only common factor amongst those teams. Furthermore, this is a 5v5 game, so your ranking should not assess your individual skill, it should assess your ability to work with a team. You have a high potential to do well on a team if you are more skillful. But teamwork, communication, and an ability to assist players who "aren't as good" should be the measure of your rank, not winning games because every player on your team won their lane.


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Goodguy Hopper

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01-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeblade View Post
I strongly believe communication and teamwork should be at the heart of champ select and pick order doesnt support this where as "calling" followed by a discussion if there is a problen does support better player behavior. It makes total sense to me that using somone who is most confident in a role would be best for the team. I would not want to end up top lane just cause im last pick and no one wanted it and i know im not confident in it while firt pick takes mid because its available but knows little and gets immediately counter picked.

I understand what you are trying to get at, and certainly calling roles is better in a limited scope. The problem is when you have two players who are both best at the same role. Also your second part of the example assumes that your 1st pick picked mid for no other reason than it was available, that is pretty unreasonable. Assuming they know little and will get counter picked immediately is the kind of attitude that tends to lead to in game trolling. Supporting pick order as the final say in who gets what roles doesn't stop people from asking for roles, it simple settles disputes when they arise. Finally, it is statistically more likely that your first pick is better at mid than your last pick, even if it is a very slight difference.


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ManateeWaffIes

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Really, I don't know why you put such emphasis on calling lanes or roles. For a majority of games played (probably around 90%) what setup you do doesn't really matter. It's not like 2 mid, 2 top, 3 mid 0 jungle etc. isn't viable. Does it help? No, not really. If someone is forced to play a role they're really not good at, they'll probably do worse for the team than if you just let them play their best character. I could see maybe, in platinum games and above, it might have an influence, but other than that it really shouldn't. Besides, I doubt the issue exists as much in plat and above because they're (mostly) there for a reason.


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Goodguy Hopper

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01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManateeWaffIes View Post
Really, I don't know why you put such emphasis on calling lanes or roles. For a majority of games played (probably around 90%) what setup you do doesn't really matter. It's not like 2 mid, 2 top, 3 mid 0 jungle etc. isn't viable. Does it help? No, not really. If someone is forced to play a role they're really not good at, they'll probably do worse for the team than if you just let them play their best character. I could see maybe, in platinum games and above, it might have an influence, but other than that it really shouldn't. Besides, I doubt the issue exists as much in plat and above because they're (mostly) there for a reason.
A large portion of an accepted meta is that it quickly organizes ranked players. It skips the step of agreeing on a strategy and allows them to focus in on the nuts and bolts. It also means there is some meta your should know before going into ranked so that there is not a need for an explanation every single game. Playing ranked 1200+ games where you have 2 mid, 2 top, no jungle, etc. are near to guaranteed losses. It is possible to win those games but you are fighting an uphill battle for various reasons. I'd be happy to go into each one if that's needed, but i feel like it would derail the thread.


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Goodguy Hopper

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01-22-2013

Recap pages 14-19

Disabling chat -

Quote:
Originally Posted by GnomeDigest View Post
Disabling chat in champion select is actually an intriguing idea. You would still need some way to indicate what role you were planning to fill once you chose your champion. Jungle is easy because 99% of the time the jungler takes smite so its obvious but the rest of the roles can get murky. So like once I pick Zilean and lock in I can click a little indicator saying I planning to support with him for example.

I cant imagine Riot would ever go for this but it would be interesting to see how the champion select dynamic would change.
Pointed out that if chat was disabled you would need some methodology of letting your team know what you where thinking after you picked a champion. I think this is a solid plan. Either you could have some sort of flag you could place by your champ, or you could talk in chat after locking in.

Lolking Stats-
The practicality of using lolking to determine if you had a team you wanted to play with was also discussed in the last couple pages. It was mostly idle speculation by myself and Maple Leaf 67. You can draw your own conclusions over pages 15-16 if your interested. I would say it isn't critical to this topic though somewhat interesting.

Support is boring as a source of trolling/discontent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twolfandthelord View Post
the problem is that the support role relies on coordination and comunication with the team, a pro-level support is a entire different thing from solo queue supports, thats the reason nobody wants to play solo queue as support, its like hey you can play this role thats its all about communication and coordination with 4 random people... yeah not happening, even with the s3 changes supports are supports and unless you stomp with some gimmicky supports like fiddlesticks, your job is always going to be protect the carry and try to die first in a teamfight.
The idea started here and it popped up in another post along the way. Essentially saying that playing support is boring and frustrating. In my opinion, playing support with a friend you trust is one of the most fun things you can do in league, unfortunately playing with a total stranger is one of the least fun and most irritating things you can do. I have found in the past that this gets better above 1400, but that it can be a nightmare below that rank. I feel like this could be remedied by promoting some powerful roaming support items. If you recall people where not as hesitant to play support when supports got to roam around. Granted that was ages ago, but conceptually it is something we could look back on, as a way to produce a fun meta game.

Perhaps an item that grants an eve like stealth for 20 seconds. A skilled support playing alistar could use that to get out of his lane and up to mid without being spoted by wards. The short duration however would keep him from marching straight into the lane without being spotted. This also promotes better team communication, and makes it more common to fight over the bush.

Forcing people into roles they don't want as an argument against Pick order

This popped up in several posts throughout this thread and i have dismissed it without comment several times because it is obvious that calling roles does essentially the same thing. Just thought I would get that out of the way right quick.

Reducing dodge timer penalty based on dodging from the queue sooner rather than last second.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavitztyr View Post
i want a more severe dodge penalty when dodging last 30 seconds
I misread this quote the first time, and when i read over it again it seemed like a really good idea on the surface.

I was set straight here -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerosk83 View Post
Sometimes I like to wait to the end to see if 2 team mates who are fighting manage to sort out their dispute. If they are still fighting at the end of the queue I'll dodge to avoid listening to it all game.

I don't really want to get punished because I'm trying to avoid 20+ minutes of obvious negativity by other players.

I think that is about it for the last 5 pages.
Still hoping to draw some love from Riot,
Aly