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Please explain to me how Riven nerfs are fair.

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Souldier

Senior Member

12-22-2012

First off i know this is PBE and it can (and should) change, but i want to know riots thought process behind it. Nerfing her HP5 gives her no way to trade and stay in lane for an effective amount of time and the fact that she has no ranged abilities beside her ult, which also got hit with a 35 sec cd at level one (and the fact that the only range skill is a skill shot/execution.
Meanwhile other top laners (no need to name names because people know who i am talking about) just laugh at how they will be more dominate then all the unnecessary nerfs the top laners are getting.
Edit: Forgot to mention that Riven is one of the most (if not most) squishiest bruiser in the league. Squishy bruiser with no sustain.

This is in no way a rage thread, and i truly respect the people at riot, i just want my voice to be heard and an explanation. I hope that the nerfs are not going to be final. Riot please take your time! Don't kill a champion who never needed to be nerfed in the first place.

Other interesting threads on the topic:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2926378 (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2926378)
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2926699 (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2926699)
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2928901 (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2928901)


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Souldier

Senior Member

12-22-2012

bump :/


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Oceanian

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Tbh, I feel as if they have over nerfed her health regen. It would be find at 6.5 per five but to have it at 4.5 per 5 seconds? And the base shield on Valor is alright as it is, why would you buff that?

And I agree on the cooldown of her ult, I main riven so I have nothing against her.


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Souldier

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Quote:
Ventrullia:
Tbh, I feel as if they have over nerfed her health regen. It would be find at 6.5 per five but to have it at 4.5 per 5 seconds? And the base shield on Valor is alright as it is, why would you buff that?

And I agree on the cooldown of her ult, I main riven so I have nothing against her.


Why can't they leave just fine alone. If she did need a nerf, at least make her hp5 7 at least. she has no other sustain, and her shield isn't that reliable now if you take dmg that blow up the shield. Her ult cd should at least be increased by 10 sec at lvl 1 because she uses that to trade and that is her only ranged att. But lets say you don't bring them low enough for our ults rage attack to do something, then what? Any range hurts her and now it will destroy her.


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Grimwohl

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Riven Has so much mobility she didn't need boots before the movement rework.(which now she doesn't really at all) She had/has so much early fight damage its ridiculous. A good riven could kill anyone who didn't start cloth armor in 6-7 seconds at level 3, save maphite, shen, and galio. Shes manaless, and has decent cooldowns. Her ult was up just about every time she got into a duel in lane, and she she did, she easily could turn what would be a poke trade into a kill with her burst. Plus, she snowballs easily. Honestly then only thing missing from her kit is the ability to go over walls.
Have you seen a good riven play? Shes kind of nuts. Like always.
How is anyone surprised shes being nerfed? To be frank, she got off easy. Queue Evelynn, Rengar, Zyra, Urgot.

Now she can be harassed out of lane, instead of having to go for potentially life threatening trades to put damage onto her. It's called a weakness, most characters have them.


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X74

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Quote:
Kersallus:
Riven Has so much mobility she didn't need boots before the movement rework.(which now she doesn't really at all) She had/has so much early fight damage its ridiculous. A good riven could kill anyone who didn't start cloth armor in 6-7 seconds at level 3, save maphite, shen, and galio. Shes manaless, and has decent cooldowns. Her ult was up just about every time she got into a duel in lane, and she she did, she easily could turn what would be a poke trade into a kill with her burst. Plus, she snowballs easily. Honestly then only thing missing from her kit is the ability to go over walls.
Have you seen a good riven play? Shes kind of nuts. Like always.
How is anyone surprised shes being nerfed? To be frank, she got off easy. Queue Evelynn, Rengar, Zyra, Urgot.

Now she can be harassed out of lane, instead of having to go for potentially life threatening trades to put damage onto her. It's called a weakness, most characters have them.


You're pretty full of garbage.

Riven has always needed boots. Why? Because all of her abilities require her to be mobile, and if she's not fast, and is slowed or kept from doing damage or moving in any way, she dies. You have no idea how much hard CC absolutely destroys her if you're saying she "doesn't need boots". I'm pretty sure that if it's been proven a Riven can be killed like 10x easier with any form of cc, that's a "weakness", as quoted in your last sentence.

Her early fight damage is crazy against anyone who doesn't build armor? Let's put this in perspective now. LeBlanc has crazy damage against anyone who doesn't build MR, in fact, almost any champion has crazy damage early game against champions who don't build appropriate defenses for their lane matchup, which is on them if they die for it. Why should we discourage counterbuilding? Even Riot staff themselves said that when it comes to Riven, heavy melee kiting is in fact something that you should have to build against; it's called a strategy, and it works. How doesn't it make sense, or is it unfair, that Riven can easily kill enemies with no armor? It's just common sense to build armor against all physical damage, and defying it should teach you a lesson.

Riven "snowballs easy" because it's the only way she can do good. If a Riven isn't snowballing they have mediocre to ****all-terrible performance lategame, and she only gets good transition to lategame with massive farm or a decent killcount early on. She is the literal definition of a snowball champion, as she's completely reliant on it and has expensive tastes in items to be effective.

The only thing justified about this nerf is the increase in ult CD, but even then, it shouldn't be such a big increase. Aside from that though, there is absolutely no reason her hp/5 should be taking such a hard hit. ANY amount of range harass, or poison, or anything of such nature will leave her defenseless where she would usually be able to stand up, as if Teemo and Darius going top lane weren't already huge obstacles for her.

EDIT: I'm willing to bet you also downvoted me.


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Souldier

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Quote:
X74X:
You're pretty full of garbage.

Riven has always needed boots. Why? Because all of her abilities require her to be mobile, and if she's not fast, and is slowed or kept from doing damage or moving in any way, she dies. You have no idea how much hard CC absolutely destroys her if you're saying she "doesn't need boots". I'm pretty sure that if it's been proven a Riven can be killed like 10x easier with any form of cc, that's a "weakness", as quoted in your last sentence.

Her early fight damage is crazy against anyone who doesn't build armor? Let's put this in perspective now. LeBlanc has crazy damage against anyone who doesn't build MR, in fact, almost any champion has crazy damage early game against champions who don't build appropriate defenses for their lane matchup, which is on them if they die for it. Why should we discourage counterbuilding? Even Riot staff themselves said that when it comes to Riven, heavy melee kiting is in fact something that you should have to build against; it's called a strategy, and it works. How doesn't it make sense, or is it unfair, that Riven can easily kill enemies with no armor? It's just common sense to build armor against all physical damage, and defying it should teach you a lesson.

Riven "snowballs easy" because it's the only way she can do good. If a Riven isn't snowballing they have mediocre to ****all-terrible performance lategame, and she only gets good transition to lategame with massive farm or a decent killcount early on. She is the literal definition of a snowball champion, as she's completely reliant on it and has expensive tastes in items to be effective.

The only thing justified about this nerf is the increase in ult CD, but even then, it shouldn't be such a big increase. Aside from that though, there is absolutely no reason her hp/5 should be taking such a hard hit. ANY amount of range harass, or poison, or anything of such nature will leave her defenseless where she would usually be able to stand up, as if Teemo and Darius going top lane weren't already huge obstacles for her.

EDIT: I'm willing to bet you also downvoted me.


I agree with you man. Rivens strength comes from early game, riot nerfs her early game. Riven NEEDS to snowball to have an impact, riot nerfed her hp5 making it 100x harder to snowball.
She has NO ranged attack (besides her ult, but it is an execution so it wont help you harass) she HAS to get in close to trade, which is why she needs avrg-high hp5. Her abilities are more used as a gap closer if anything. Her HP5 nerf was too hard and her ult cd shouldn't get such a high cd (does she need a cd increase, maybe. 10-15 seconds at lvl 1 would be understandable, not 35 seconds.)
Riot PLEASE focus on riven really hard before these changes hit the live servers.


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Hòlypenguin

Junior Member

12-23-2012

The HP5 nerf was overboard, the Ult nerf at least made sense. It's going to be pretty damn hard to trade against other top-laners as Riven without buying 60 potions now, and that's the problem. The shield isn't enough. They want her playstyle to revolve around going in to attack when her shield was used, but her health is still going to be chipped away at frequently enough. More than a 50% nerf to the health regen is silly.


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Grimwohl

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Let me put it this way.
You can start Cloth armor and 5x Potions, armor seals, and by level three riven can turn what would be a damage trade into a kill. There are very few tops that can "kite" Riven, save Elise, or Swain, or a few others. Most of them have melee skills and auto attacks.

I have watched Wingsofdeathx, Dyrus, HotshotGG, and BestRivenNA (who is as his name suggest) All kill their lane opponent is under 6 seconds at level 3. Maybe its something you can't accomplish, but its fully possible. The only one of those who bother to buy boots before level 9-10 is Wings. Its pretty staple to buy boots, the point is she never needs them in lane. The mobility of her skillset, if properly managed, is more than enough. The majority of tops are melee who in fact, cant kite and harass you down! There are about three ranged tops who can do it effectively.

There are a lot of champions who have the ability to blow you up! Most of them don't have the bruiser stats, the highest natural regen in the game, a shield, and rather explosive steroid. for leblanc to do her job, she usually builds squishy. That's not as much of a consequence for someone with an already much higher innate stat pool.Not saying Riven is OP, but shes better off than a lot. Who got a rather firm nerf for less.

And no, I didnt downvote you.


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Samwel93

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
There are a lot of champions who have the ability to blow you up! Most of them don't have the bruiser stats, the highest natural regen in the game, a shield, and rather explosive steroid. for leblanc to do her job, she usually builds squishy. That's not as much of a consequence for someone with an already much higher innate stat pool.


Riven doesn't really have bruiser stats. Her base health(only 20 more than LB) and armor(only 3 more than LB and LB actually gets more armor/lvl than Riven) are very mediocre for a top lane, I know comparing the stats of a mid to a top lane is kind of absurd but it really does show you how low most of Riven's base stats are. Also Riven needs to build damage to blow people up while most top lanes put out the same amount of damage if built as a tank and most likely put out more just because they survive longer. LB is also a lot safer in a fight than Riven because she doesn't need to dive into a team to do dmg, yeah LB has that dash but it ports you back to its start point. Also if you want to talk about explosive steroids look at Jax, a skilled Jax player will rarely lose a lane if they can survive his subpar pre 6. Just 1 last thing thats kind of off topic, LB actually "scales" into late game really well her kit is just bad for late game especially that garbage passive.