Why we hate Elo-Hell believers

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Smittens91

Senior Member

12-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxXxxTheAmazing View Post
you didn't because there are 4 spots on your team and 5 on the enemies. Therefore, the idiots are 11% more likely to be on the enemy team. So in reality, the system benefits you.
Minor correction/addition: The system benefits you as long as YOU are not the problem. I like that you're smart enough to understand the math that takes away any argument for Elo Hell existing, just thought I'd add to it so the noobs understand that there is still the option of THEM being the problem.

Elo Hell is a lot like the Christian Hell; all the evidence is against it but the gullible still see it as a reason to QQ to others.


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Thelohel

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Senior Member

12-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
Having played many games at 1900+ and many games at 600-900 I can safely say more people with throw a game because they don't like a player at 1900+ than between 600-900
I find that honestly very surprising. I played Dominion a lot a few months ago, when you could check your hidden elo, and during my climb from the 1200s to the 1900-2k area, I noticed a significant improvement in the maturity levels of the player. This may have been due to the smaller player base, especially at that level, and the fact that you could group queue with more than 1 other person.

Still.. I find that shocking.


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m0dified

Member

12-26-2012

ELO Hell exists, people that say it doesn't are idiots, people that say it is impossible to escape are also just as idiotic. I'm not entirely sure I'm in ELO hell atm, but the game is certainly making it as hard as it possibly can to make sure my rating drops.

Now I'm not one of those dickwads that are all herp derp I'm a plat player, personally I think I'm probably around high 1200's low 1300's, One of my friends thinks I should be in the 1500's but I don't see it. Oh and I played support 6/10 of my placement matches all losses and was originally placed at 1020, I dragged myself up to 1125 and now I've had a lose streak like you would not believe and I'm currently back at 1043.

Now the only reason I think I should be higher rated than I am is because my friends and I have a premade 5's team and we are currently 2 wins 0 losses, I'm very anxious to see were we get placed there as I'm one of the better players in our team albeit the only one dumb enough to submit himself to solo queue torture.

Admittedly if after a while my rating doesn't climb at all, I'll accept I'm an 1k-1.1k player and then ask Riot to set my ELO to the lowest and see if i can climb back :P


m0dified

P.S I'm willing to back up I don't belong at my rating, I should have replays for most of my ranked games, contact me either in game or at gryffin1986@gmail.com and I'll gladly get them to you


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Jusaleb

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Junior Member

12-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
Having played many games at 1900+ and many games at 600-900 I can safely say more people with throw a game because they don't like a player at 1900+ than between 600-900
I'm gonna reply to this quote simply because it was the shortest.

First off, i want to thank Selcopa for providing some brief knowledge about the rating system and some issues/positives resulting from it.

Yesterday i uninstalled league because of a losing streak in ranked that i believed to be not my fault. But after reading all of what Selcopa wrote, i can honestly say that i truly understand what he is saying and that he right. I am currently reinstalling league with the hopes that i will play ranked, working hard to get to where i belong, and once i reach that place, i will attempt to analyze my own personal mistakes and try to mitigate as many of them as possible in order to further my own skill level and move up on the ladder.

Thanks Selcopa for clearing up some of the biggest issues i had with the game, and thanks for restoring my drive to play.


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a bit

Member

12-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seiichi View Post
unfortunately tho, elo hell exists, and if you doubt it, plummit your elo to 700 and tell me if you can make it back up to what you call "average".

Heres how I know elo hell exists:

1)90% of my games have 1 person that dies 10 times or more, even if we win. Thats not a problem.
2) I win 80% of the games where there is only 1 kid going heavy negative, I dont carry every game, but I keep the team together and we push on.
3) I had a 33% win rate in season 2. Vastly different from what I just said, heres the deal:

Most games there are at least 2 people going heavy negative, usually 3. Usually all 4 of my teammates believe they are unjustly in ELO Hell. Not hard to imagine why, probably like me, they see all the feeders, and instead of recignising their negative score, they push the blame on others.

This leads to a simple problem, you find a bunch of feeders, with no concept of the game, running around thinking they are better than everyone else, solo pushing, refusing to work as a team because they know better. If a gold player was placing, and had a bunch of games with these people, they can just as easily lose and end up in the lower elo. In fact, now that we have the borders, I see Gold borders in my 1100 elo games ALL the time, and they tell me the same thing, feeders in placement, feeders most games, now their elo will not rise above the 1200 "average" player mark.

That is elo hell, you need to be able to carry a 1200 elo team of feeders to escape it, which would mean you would need to be better than Gold to get out of it. And if you believe 1200 elo to be average, my friend, you are not competitive enough, I concider being at 1200 to be a failure, and im quite frustraited with my inablility to carry the 1200 elo feeders I deal with daily.

Now dont get me wrong, there are plenty of decent players at 1200 elo, but unfortunately there are alot more feeders that had someone from Gold carry them thru games to get 1200 elo. Big problem, because now elo is not a reprisentation of YOUR skill, but rather your LUCK in getting good teammates. I have a simple solution for this problem that noone seems to like, maybe I just dont explain it properly, but here goes:

Calculate your elo loss/gain based on in game stats. eg: your support, your elo is based on: K/A vs Death ratios. you go 0-5-35, you get loss protection because you were in fights, and didnt feed, congratz. Lets say your an ADC and you go, iuno, 12-10-8. 12 kills, bravo, 10 deaths, tisk tisk. but 8 assists, so your ratio is 2:1, not bad. now lets say you go jungle, and your not that great, and you die in alot of ganks... and go i dunno 1-15-10, now you have contributed to 11 kills but died 15 times, you are NOT helpful. so you take a elo hit. This system accomplishes 2 things:

1) make elo represent how you do in matches
2) discourage dying, while not encouraging KS'ing cuz kills/assists have the same value. Less feeders, better games. Feeders drop elo faster, those who dont feed, hold on to their elo better even if they are in elo hell.

let me know what you think, I hope I showed you why elo hell exists and why it is such a big problem.
Ok lets put it this way, if you're saying on a team theres always a chance to get a feeder right? and lets say the feeder will never be you (because you're soooo much better than anyone else in your elo) then out of 5, theres only 4 possible feeders. While on the enemy team, since your godlike ass isn't in it, there are 5 possible feeders. If you believe theres a feeder in every game then it must be in your favor.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

12-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusaleb View Post
I'm gonna reply to this quote simply because it was the shortest.

First off, i want to thank Selcopa for providing some brief knowledge about the rating system and some issues/positives resulting from it.

Yesterday i uninstalled league because of a losing streak in ranked that i believed to be not my fault. But after reading all of what Selcopa wrote, i can honestly say that i truly understand what he is saying and that he right. I am currently reinstalling league with the hopes that i will play ranked, working hard to get to where i belong, and once i reach that place, i will attempt to analyze my own personal mistakes and try to mitigate as many of them as possible in order to further my own skill level and move up on the ladder.

Thanks Selcopa for clearing up some of the biggest issues i had with the game, and thanks for restoring my drive to play.
Glad to hear, always look to improve, it can suck sometimes, especially when you have limited time to play, but the key isn't to approach the game as "Once ill get to 1600 or x rating ill have fun" but rather to try to improve every game, learn to take advantage of new edges, and always give your team the best possible chance to win.

Quote:
ELO Hell exists, people that say it doesn't are idiots, people that say it is impossible to escape are also just as idiotic. I'm not entirely sure I'm in ELO hell atm, but the game is certainly making it as hard as it possibly can to make sure my rating drops.

Now I'm not one of those dickwads that are all herp derp I'm a plat player, personally I think I'm probably around high 1200's low 1300's, One of my friends thinks I should be in the 1500's but I don't see it. Oh and I played support 6/10 of my placement matches all losses and was originally placed at 1020, I dragged myself up to 1125 and now I've had a lose streak like you would not believe and I'm currently back at 1043.

Now the only reason I think I should be higher rated than I am is because my friends and I have a premade 5's team and we are currently 2 wins 0 losses, I'm very anxious to see were we get placed there as I'm one of the better players in our team albeit the only one dumb enough to submit himself to solo queue torture.

Admittedly if after a while my rating doesn't climb at all, I'll accept I'm an 1k-1.1k player and then ask Riot to set my ELO to the lowest and see if i can climb back :P


m0dified

P.S I'm willing to back up I don't belong at my rating, I should have replays for most of my ranked games, contact me either in game or at gryffin1986@gmail.com and I'll gladly get them to you
I offer an RP card to someone who can prove elo hell to me, what are you willing to risk?


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Deveyes

Senior Member

12-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjagear View Post
no, u didnt agree with me. im telling u that elo hell is a figment of ur imagination. its all in ur head. u act like the game will get easier as u climb elo. no, the game gets harder. u act like ur teammates r going to stop making game breaking mistakes. no, ur teammates r always going to make mistakes. u act like there is a magic place where u can be happy, and its just a little above ur elo, just a little and if u get a little higher u can start playing with people of ur skill. NO.

right now u play with people ur skill level. right now u make just as many game breaking mistakes as anyone else on ur team. and if u arent happy with urself, it doesnt matter how much elo u get, ur still going to be unhappy.

the simple fact of the matter is u r using ur teammates mistakes as an excuse to keep making ur own mistakes. and its those mistakes that are holding u back. its like selcopa said. if ur so good, then post a replay, prove it. but u wont, cause u know if u do that, we will prove how bad u r and that will crush the little world u built up around urself.
no ur absolutely right i did not agree with you lol and i still don't

to say to someone that they make as many mistakes as their teammates in their elo bracket is ridiculous. Lol im not even sure you are aware of what you're saying or you are just blowing off some steam or what.

And to be honest i really cant think of anything that will sway your way of thinking. I think its funny that you use the idea that im imagining it all. Kinda ironic. I do believe there is an issue with the 1200 - 1400 elo range. You say it will be harder once I go higher but I doubt it will. I don't think it will be easier in the general sense but will be difficult in a different way. I don't agree with you. At all. k?


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m0dified

Member

12-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
I offer an RP card to someone who can prove elo hell to me, what are you willing to risk?
I'll offer the same?


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Jookah

Junior Member

12-27-2012

Learn to be a better player!

Summoner's School


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PureAlchemy

Member

12-27-2012

"Calculate your elo loss/gain based on in game stats. eg: your support, your elo is based on: K/A vs Death ratios. you go 0-5-35, you get loss protection because you were in fights, and didnt feed, congratz. Lets say your an ADC and you go, iuno, 12-10-8. 12 kills, bravo, 10 deaths, tisk tisk. but 8 assists, so your ratio is 2:1, not bad. now lets say you go jungle, and your not that great, and you die in alot of ganks... and go i dunno 1-15-10, now you have contributed to 11 kills but died 15 times, you are NOT helpful. so you take a elo hit. This system accomplishes 2 things:

1) make elo represent how you do in matches
2) discourage dying, while not encouraging KS'ing cuz kills/assists have the same value. Less feeders, better games. Feeders drop elo faster, those who dont feed, hold on to their elo better even if they are in elo hell.
" --(Seiichi)


I think this is a great idea. I personally am scared to play ranked just cause I don't want to be dragged down by tollers and feeders. I haven't even played my 5 games yet to get my rank. 1st game- Olaf jungle, 9/4/5, win.. 2nd game- Ezreal adc, 18/3/15, win... I usually always do good as far as K/D goes and work with the team well, but sometimes you just get people that want to be a lonewolf and don't give a S***.