Why we hate Elo-Hell believers

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KyuzoX

Junior Member

12-24-2012

Ok, I do have something to say here. This is a GAME and I know that everyone likes winning and all but lets talk about my experience. I was a bronze player last season (yeah a noob if u will) and Im totally fine with that, I started with 1300 (or something like it) and now I have a glorious 500. Some where bad games for me, some for my team but the thing that i hate the most its not "elo hell" its the kind of people that u find. I have seen almost all the insults that i actually know ( yes english is not my 1st language) and I actually i have thought a couple of times of just stop playing and it is not cause of trolls, bad players, afks, or whatever, but for the ones that are actually doing a little better and think that they can say what they want. My point is that the game would be funnier if people stop cursing at other players just because they are having a bad game, tell them how they can improve in the end its a team game and IT DOES NOT MATTER how good u r (or say u r) if u dont try to help ur team. Not even a member of the best team can win 1v5. Respect and u will see that games will be more entretaining and who knows maybe someday u will be above 1900 elo.


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KyuzoX

Junior Member

12-24-2012

Oh and one more thing, I get that u guys take this as a really serious thing, but come on i think that most of us players dont get paid for this, we just play for fun or the satisfaction of winning or something like that. If u get paid by doing this good for you, you are living my drea m but in the real life there are more important things so dont ruin the game for the rest of players with negative comments. ( Just to clarify: My comments are not meant for anyone in particular... just saying.


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Nzo

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
I like the ones who refer to plat players as lucky, scrubs or got carried.
You can't get carried to plat. Thats simply too many games.

Carried to gold? Definitely possible and seen it a ton. Especially with duo queueing.


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Kirielis

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Senior Member

12-24-2012

Completely agree with the first two posts on this page, by the way! That's a separate discussion from skill levels, to be sure, but it feels like a lot of the people who believe in elo hell (the skill type, which doesn't exist) are the ones creating elo hell (the attitude type).


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Selcopa

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nzo View Post
You can't get carried to plat. Thats simply too many games.

Carried to gold? Definitely possible and seen it a ton. Especially with duo queueing.
Play enough games are you are guaranteed to get carried to near any elo, the more skill you have the less games it would take, but enough games and eventually you can get a lucky streak of enough good players to carry you to anywhere


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Seiichi

Member

12-24-2012

Selcopa I suggest you re-read my last post, I cant even begin to reply to what you put because my english seems to elude you. I dont know if its because we speak different types of english or if its your "im better than you, you must suck" attitude just getting in the way. I talk about the past cuz im hoping you understand that im not someone who started S2, but so long as you keep that negative attitude there is no way for us to communicate. as for "instead of losing 12.5 elo, only losing 11 elo is awarding elo" I suggest you take some accounting classes, last I checked, if you buy something on sale for $10 off the original price, you have not gained $10, you simply lost $10 less, keep nit picking at words and ignoring the issue tho, im done trying to rationalize with you.

I will say this, first I dont have a replay of that game cuz it was S2 and I was only trying to get the janna skin the retire from ranked. And no, there was nothing I could do, I was pushing bot inhib around 20 min, I had 2 maybe 3 enemies in my lane most of the time, as I killed one someone else would arrive, but then they got smart and I found myself 2v5, so I backed, joined my team. Threw my Q, pinged, ultied to initiate, not one person on my team attacked, got caught a few times cuz I'd Q and attack, and my team would back, so then I went from standing behind a tank to alone in half a second. I tried to push other objectives but when I did, they would dive my team and 4 people would die. If I left the tower they were pushing, we lost tower, I cant out push 5 people, I cant engage on 5 people with sivir. My team literally cowered, and eventually one person would get brave and leeroy into them and die, while I tried to pick someone off. Like I said, I will be posting replays on LoL Replay EVERY time I play ranked, your welcome to look me up there and judge me all you want, and if I remember, when I hit gold I'll let you know, then we can talk about who's better since you seem to wanna do that alot.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seiichi View Post
Selcopa I suggest you re-read my last post, I cant even begin to reply to what you put because my english seems to elude you. I dont know if its because we speak different types of english or if its your "im better than you, you must suck" attitude just getting in the way. I talk about the past cuz im hoping you understand that im not someone who started S2, but so long as you keep that negative attitude there is no way for us to communicate.
Reread, here's a couple of things I missed.

There's no such thing as "gold level mechanics" there's just mechanics(another game theory misstep) What you mean by gold level mechanics is the progressively smaller and smaller mistakes that people are making that a gold player can take advantage of, that a lower level player would not.

The thing is that a gold level player doesn't get his edge from taking advantage of smaller mistakes at lower elos, he gets his edge from taking advantage of the biggest mistakes that are constantly made at that elo, AS WELL AS some of the smaller mistakes when the larger mistakes aren't being made.
To reiterate, there's no point in learning to take advantage of the "gold level mistakes" or "platinum level mistakes" when there is so much more to be gained from capitalizing and fixing "silver and bronze level mistakes"
EDIT: I wanted to clarify as well. Even if you were to learn to take advantage of "plat/gold" mistakes, you wouldn't be able to maintain a plat or gold rating, because your opponents would constantly be taking advantage of your silver/bronze mistakes, and those mistakes are much more game changing and frequent.


So I was right, you played 100~ games last season, that is why you were able to get a 33% winrate. The system just wasn't done with you that's all.

As for your s3 games, you know what I started? 1-7. If I had teammates as good as me could I have won? Absolutely, did I play perfect?(or even at my former 1900 skill level) not at all, this isn't evidence of elo hell, ive now moved to 17-16 and working my way up. Play more games and you will isolate yourself from the noise of the system, im not saying noise doesn't exist, but there isn't a perpetual system that forces you at a level that you don't belong.

Quote:
as for "instead of losing 12.5 elo, only losing 11 elo is awarding elo" I suggest you take some accounting classes, last I checked, if you buy something on sale for $10 off the original price, you have not gained $10, you simply lost $10 less, keep nit picking at words and ignoring the issue tho, im done trying to rationalize with you.
This is one of the most flawed arguments that every elo hell person believes, "Its not awarding elo, its just losing less"

The ELO system you can look at everything as gaining elo, you win a game, you gain 12.5 elo, you lose a game, you gain -12.5 elo, now, you are creating an action, so that when you lose, you gain -11 elo, or whatever, this means, that doing a certain action gains you elo. You can call it "losing less" but you are promoting a certain action that isn't winning(and doesn't necessarily promote winning) This will make players hedge their bets, especially when they are already behind, if i'm up 4-0 in my lane, and my team is losing, Unless im very confident we can come back, im not going to risk my score, optimal strategy would be to try to get back in the game, maybe even dieing some and getting my carries fed. But your system encourages me to just roll over and give up.

Furthermore, because you are mitigating elo loss, players will maintain a certain elo, but have under a 50% winrate, thus ruining the system. A 1400 skilled player will orbit around 1400, however, because he can manipulate scores and thus affect his elo, he can consistently win more elo than lose elo, so he will always move up faster than he moves down, but he will always stay around 1400, this will cause him to have less than 50% winrate.

Quote:
I will say this, first I dont have a replay of that game cuz it was S2 and I was only trying to get the janna skin the retire from ranked. And no, there was nothing I could do, I was pushing bot inhib around 20 min, I had 2 maybe 3 enemies in my lane most of the time, as I killed one someone else would arrive, but then they got smart and I found myself 2v5, so I backed, joined my team. Threw my Q, pinged, ultied to initiate, not one person on my team attacked, got caught a few times cuz I'd Q and attack, and my team would back, so then I went from standing behind a tank to alone in half a second. I tried to push other objectives but when I did, they would dive my team and 4 people would die. If I left the tower they were pushing, we lost tower, I cant out push 5 people, I cant engage on 5 people with sivir. My team literally cowered, and eventually one person would get brave and leeroy into them and die, while I tried to pick someone off. Like I said, I will be posting replays on LoL Replay EVERY time I play ranked, your welcome to look me up there and judge me all you want, and if I remember, when I hit gold I'll let you know, then we can talk about who's better since you seem to wanna do that alot.
I bolded the mistake part, im sure there's plenty of mistakes, like you probably didn't buy a sword of occult, that's a huge mistake when you get 10 kills that quickly. And there's a good chance you just didn't force the enemy team to actions properly. I seriously doubt there was nothing you could have done to win that game. But I suppose we will never know.

As far as you hitting gold, won't that just prove im right? That there is no elo hell. The point of your argument is that you are a gold player, and you are unable to get there because of bad players. But if you get there, then there's not really an elo hell is there? There's a short term noise issue, but not elo hell.


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Seiichi

Member

12-24-2012

Selcopa instead of telling me there is no such thing as "gold level mechanics" why dont you simply understand I am talking about mechanics that arent obvious to people below gold? why do you nit pick on little things and sidestep the main idea? is it possible that your just trolling? I think your just talking down to everyone below you because you think your hot ****, like I said earlier, so Im done debating with you, understand this, if you chose to not understand the view of those around you, label your view as the only possible right answer, you will have alot of trouble getting along with anyone that has a different point of view. Get off your horse, go play 200 games at 700 elo, then tell me if every game is something you can carry. Thanks.


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ninjagear

Senior Member

12-24-2012

i dont hate them, so much as pity and fear them. my life has been pissed on in so many places due to outright ignorance, self-indulgence, and refusal to accept change.

i fear them because they have given themselves an excuse to give up, to stop trying. they make one mistake, they let one mistake from a teammate bring them down. then they start clawing at everyone else in their panic, and they ruin a game for the other 9 people there that arent concerned about winning so much as doing the best they can and testing that against whats out there.

i dont know whats worse, being able to see the truth, or being powerless to help the people that cant.


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Seiichi

Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyuzoX View Post
Ok, I do have something to say here. This is a GAME and I know that everyone likes winning and all but lets talk about my experience. I was a bronze player last season (yeah a noob if u will) and Im totally fine with that, I started with 1300 (or something like it) and now I have a glorious 500. Some where bad games for me, some for my team but the thing that i hate the most its not "elo hell" its the kind of people that u find. I have seen almost all the insults that i actually know ( yes english is not my 1st language) and I actually i have thought a couple of times of just stop playing and it is not cause of trolls, bad players, afks, or whatever, but for the ones that are actually doing a little better and think that they can say what they want. My point is that the game would be funnier if people stop cursing at other players just because they are having a bad game, tell them how they can improve in the end its a team game and IT DOES NOT MATTER how good u r (or say u r) if u dont try to help ur team. Not even a member of the best team can win 1v5. Respect and u will see that games will be more entretaining and who knows maybe someday u will be above 1900 elo.
Selcopa can. Selcopa can carry anyone, so long as hes not having a bad game that is. Right?