Why we hate Elo-Hell believers

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deeeJAY

Member

01-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larrythetapist View Post
I am agreeing with you man. That's the point. you need to be able to justify your intelligence in one way or another. Getting an advanced degree is one way. Making buttloads of money or changing the course of history is another way.
You agree with me, then you contradict what i said by restating your first paragraph. Even though I've already expressed my views in the above paragraph. Making or owning a lot of money doesn't mean one is intelligent either. The Bush family is worth billions and Jr is a ******.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larrythetapist View Post
also FYI, Gates and Zuckerberg were both dropped out of Harvard.That's like refusing gold elo seeding because they are forced to play at +\- 12elo a game. They are both counter-theory to real-life elo hell if you think about it.
Except they're white, coming from semi-wealthy backgrounds. That's not the equivalent of elo hell. That's like queuing with someone with higher elo before your placement matches, winning all of them and go diamond, then end up being the person that says, "elo hell doesn't exist". They would've have to be minority coming from an extremely poor background and then become wealthy for this analogy to work. We all know the odds of something like that happening. Slim to none...the same as raising Elo in a comfortable amount of time.

"The average net worth of billionaires who dropped out of college, $9.4 billion, is approximately triple that of billionaires with Ph.D.s, $3.2 billion. Even if you remove the world's second richest man, Bill Gates, who left Harvard University and is now worth $59.0 billion, college dropouts are worth $5.3 billion on average, compared to those who finished only bachelor's degrees, who are worth $2.9 billion."

The logic right here shows that PhD's not only aren't smarter in terms of intelligence but they don't make as much money per average as a college dropout. Your trying to force your argument to work even though Elo is designed to be for 1v1, not 5v5. That alone should throw up a red flag.


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Baxter the Teddy

Senior Member

01-01-2013

This topic went into a weird and silly place, comparing real life people to ELO hell.

Edit- Also,

Quote:
The logic right here shows that PhD's not only aren't smarter in terms of intelligence but they don't make as much money per average as a college dropou
Umm, most college drop outs ARE NOT Zuckerberg or Gates. They are the VERY big exception. These were people who were SMARTER than the people teaching them. Most college drop outs work at McDs on average and make a helluva lot less then someone with a PhD.


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deeeJAY

Member

01-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlC Madman View Post
Most college drop outs work at McDs on average and make a helluva lot less then someone with a PhD.
Most college graduates also work at McDonald's and make a hell of a lot less...Your point?


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Baxter the Teddy

Senior Member

01-02-2013

I dunno man, this whole thing went into a weird and silly place.


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Larrythetapist

Senior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlC Madman View Post
This topic went into a weird and silly place, comparing real life people to ELO hell.

That's the whole point of this thread my man


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Larrythetapist

Senior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeeJAY View Post

Except they're white, coming from semi-wealthy backgrounds. That's not the equivalent of elo hell. That's like queuing with someone with higher elo before your placement matches, winning all of them and go diamond, then end up being the person that says, "elo hell doesn't exist". They would've have to be minority coming from an extremely poor background and then become wealthy for this analogy to work.
.
Semi-wealthy white family, legacy admission into Harvard, etc is only equivalent to being seeded to gold elo (Upper Middle Class).

They both refused the seeding. Instead choosing to start from 1200 (without a degree) in order to more quickly achieve the diamond++ status they are at today.


As for being seeded into the other end. the Rothchilds family who controlled the economy of Europe were born into extremely poverty. Is that not equivalent of extremely talented people being seeded into 200 elo yet still make diamond++ because of their skill?


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Selcopa

Senior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeeJAY View Post
Stuff.
You do realize that pros create smurfs all the time and always get to high elo very quickly right?


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Deveyes

Senior Member

01-03-2013

larry do u have a smurf or something?
Cand you show your match history? Actually I'd like to see alot of your guy's games and stats. :P


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Deveyes

Senior Member

01-03-2013

lemme break some more down for u jokers :P
if a change of rating system was introduced it shouldn't even matter to all you "pro" players right? Because you would still be up there no matter what. So it's just softening your arguments when you oppose a new rating system.... such as the rating system nearly every other competitive game applies... starting at 0.

And if you all truly believed you are that amazing. Throw out some REAL information as to how you are able to advance in rank. I still haven't heard anything. "get better" ? what is that? So for all your super smart theorizing mumbo jumbo college blah blah... why don't you provide ACTUAL information. Like if you think you are at some proffessor level of play.. say some uhhh smart stuff. lol. Like if i went to your class.. and all you told me was, "Hey look I'm a professor of theoretical physics for a reason. It's because I'm good. You guys are just not good enough. Class dismissed."

You would look like an absolute tard. Just saying.

So inform us of all your expertise knowledge on this subject......


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Selcopa

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmoredNeon View Post
lemme break some more down for u jokers :P
if a change of rating system was introduced it shouldn't even matter to all you "pro" players right? Because you would still be up there no matter what. So it's just softening your arguments when you oppose a new rating system.... such as the rating system nearly every other competitive game applies... starting at 0.
They could change the system to start at 0 elo, good players would still get up there.

The thing is, the current system very accurately portrays relative skill over a mediocre sample size, no one has actually ever been able to convince me or anyone else that they have been stuck at a lower bracket than they deserved for an extended period of time. So there really isn't a point to changing the system, when there aren't very many(if any) cases where it doesn't accurately show skill.

In fact the point where it stops getting a good read on skill is around 2200+, there's not much of a difference between a 2500 and a 2200 player, but there sure as hell is a big difference between 1500 and 1200.

Quote:
And if you all truly believed you are that amazing. Throw out some REAL information as to how you are able to advance in rank. I still haven't heard anything. "get better" ? what is that? So for all your super smart theorizing mumbo jumbo college blah blah... why don't you provide ACTUAL information.

So inform us of all your expertise knowledge on this subject......
Here's the key to all this.

There isn't a universal thing for a player to do in order to move their elo up, other than reducing mistakes.

Some players are great farmers, others great gankers, awareness, snowballing, turtling there are literally hundreds of things that I could talk about there. And each player is different.

The higher you move up in elo, the more 'balanced' players are. If they have a flaw in their game, then every single time that situation comes up. That player is going to lose an edge. At low elos this isn't bad because edges are being surrendered to both teams all the time. So the less edges you are giving up to the enemy, then the number of times your team will have an edge will increase, because the enemies will still be making mistakes.

As you move up, players are less likely to make a mistake like that. They still will make mistakes, including '1200 elo' mistakes, and everytime they do, they are put at an advantage.

So how do you move up in elo? You need to identify what mistakes you make, it doesn't matter if your team is 20-0 or 1-15, a mistake is a mistake, and while it might not matter for that immediate game, if you continue to make an error later in games, they will cost you games that weren't already decided, or turn an easy win into a contested game.

Go over your replays, figure out what you are doing wrong. Figure out how you can maximize your efficiency, a lot of times a player might get 4 man ganked and say "nothing I could of done" or "Irelia got fed top and came down and stomped me in team fights. Not my fault" And at that point, you might be right, at that particular point. However what you are missing is how that could of been avoided, if you cs'd better could you have gone back for a new item quicker, avoiding the gank entirely, or what if you had killed your opponent 10 seconds earlier, then you coulda escaped. And yeah maybe irelia got fed top and stomped you, but could you have slowed down the snowball, a lot of times all it takes is stop them once and you can save your entire team later in a fight.