AP Mages are losing their place in League

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ElementzPRO

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EzSkillshot View Post
Orianna damage is low?
Twisted fate damage is low?
Karthus damage is low?
Anivia damage is low?
Swain damage is low?
Kat damage is low?
Cass damage is low?
Ryze damage is low?
Vlad damage is low?

The unranked door is that way. ->
-Yes
-Yes
-No
-Yes
-Yes
-Yes
-No also not viable
-Yes
-No also not viable

Cass Karth and vlad all get hard countered by bruisers expect to see a lot of lee sin picked to counter them in season 3
Karthus literally can not stay in lane against a lee sin


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kise

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebags View Post
Lol, armor. What's that? *buys 3 black cleavers*
Lol. Don't forget about the counter to hp-stackers, Botrk

All AD is a viable composition now. I don't think that's a problem. People just don't counterpick correctly.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ElementzPRO

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kise View Post
Lol. Don't forget about the counter to hp-stackers, Botrk

All AD is a viable composition now. I don't think that's a problem. People just don't counterpick correctly.
The problem is there is literally no need for an AP champ anymore
so 1/5 of the champs are effectively useless sucks for people who play them

Why run an AP mid when you can run lee sin?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SmokingPuffin

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebags View Post
Except in S3 carries were nerfed and bruisers were buffed, so now bruisers don't really lose any strength at all late game, while carries definitely don't deal as much damage as they used to with a full build.
It's true that S3 has generally buffed bruisers and nerfed carries. AD carries have lost more power than AP carries, but both classes are weaker than they used to be.

The same tradeoffs exist, though -- if you field a bruiser instead of an AP carry mid, your team still suffers in the same sorts of ways it used to suffer.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dralun

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementzPRO View Post
-Yes
-Yes
-No
-Yes
-Yes
-Yes
-No also not viable
-Yes
-No also not viable

Cass Karth and vlad all get hard countered by bruisers expect to see a lot of lee sin picked to counter them in season 3
Karthus literally can not stay in lane against a lee sin
You just call Ori's damage low and Cass not viable?

What is this I don't even


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

NightWolf1452346

Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhugan View Post
The thing that you're missing, is that bruisers are melee. Getting from melee to someone else, even with a gap closer, is dangerous. A well played ap mid (especially one with a ranged auto attack) should beat most bruisers who are against them.

They should always win their trades because they can disengage with some form of CC and then just poke with ranged spells and attacks. There is a reason that mids are still mostly ap champions, and that is because a ranged ap mid versus a melee bruisers is a mismatch in the ap champion's favor.

That's not quite correct. While a ranged AP mage does have some advantage with their auto attacks, that particular advantage disappears when the bruiser becomes strong enough to reach the mage and retaliate in kind, once the bruiser has all of he/her kit. That's why bruises usually play it safe until lv 3-4.

I am not good at AP mages, so take what I say now with a grain of salt. I believe the way for ranged mages to maintain an advantage in lane is to make sure the bruiser does not reach you, through CC, move quints, etc. Case in point, I occasionally play Riven mid, and I ran into a Veigar with move quints once, and he wrecked me, b/c I can't get to him.

Now, if we throw a champ with more reliable dash (Lee Sin, Xin Zhao, or Irelia even), what happens? That particular advantage becomes much more difficult to maintain unless you can quickly disengage or retaliate with even more dmg and make them regret or be wary of trading with you (Cassi comes to mind in the later case).

Still, this only allows a squishy ranged mage to survive a bruiser. The rest will depend on the player's ability to roam (difficult b/c bruiser can push fairly well) and teamfight (much better due to the mage's utility and CC)

Tl;dr Ranged mages have to be very careful to survive a bruiser, but shines in a team fight situation.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ElementzPRO

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna Drago View Post
You just call Ori's damage low and Cass not viable?

What is this I don't even
In what way is oris damage not low

lee sins damage is much higher
Cass has not been seen in a pro match in around 6 months


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IAmTheOneWhoNocs

Senior Member

12-21-2012

I haven't seen a mage in my last few ranked games.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Risemix

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokingPuffin View Post
It's true that S3 has generally buffed bruisers and nerfed carries. AD carries have lost more power than AP carries, but both classes are weaker than they used to be.

The same tradeoffs exist, though -- if you field a bruiser instead of an AP carry mid, your team still suffers in the same sorts of ways it used to suffer.
The problem is that it doesn't. There's no reason to run anything but a single type of damage anymore. You could even run an all AP team, if AP champions came with the same kinds of benefits AD champions do. But they don't, so you can't.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FrozenChinchilla

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-21-2012

They need to release tankier AP champions.