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AP Mages are losing their place in League

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Nard Daawg

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Have fun not running any AP on your team and having the opposing team stack armor. Enjoy the loss


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Pawstruck

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Yep. Been saying this since the end of S2.


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Risemix

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Zhugan:
The champions that you are giving as examples were ALWAYS counters to ap mids. Especially ap champions with few escapes. All Riot did was give them actual viable itemization, which they didn't have before.

The number of times I've seen people play Talon/Xin/Panth mid and dominate is high. They all have both instant gap closers (that are no skill) AND stun/knock-up/silence. IF that doesn't read like someone who should be able to beat an ap mid, I don't know what does. The thing is, again, that was ALWAYS true.

Although Fiora and Lee Sin should both lose to a good ap mid if the ap champion plays effectively. Lee Sin is entirely reliant on landing his Q, if you can dodge that then you're fine. Fiora's gap closer is scary, and her burst is unfortunate, but most ap mids have either stuns or snares. GG Fiora, can't really chase when you are rooted to the ground.


I didn't say it wasn't always true -- I'm saying that while it was always true before, there's no incentive to run anything but bruisers that counter AP mids now because their magic damage isn't very important due to new ArPen mechanics and items, and because their control and mobility are no longer a monopoly.

It used to be that you would run a bruiser mid to counter a mage occasionally, but only if you had an AP top or something else because it was important to have a mage on your team somewhere. It's not important anymore because most mages don't bring anything that can't be provided by a bruiser. Utility mages still work, but they aren't totally necessary either as usually a support covers a lot of that stuff.

Side note: I think there's something wrong with the fact that you can counter any standard lane by sticking a bruiser in it. Kill lanes easily counter standard bot lanes too, but like season 2 mid lanes, there are trade-offs involved. You give up having an AD carry late game unless they were in another lane.


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Joebags

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
SmokingPuffin:
Bruisers trade late game weakness for early game strength.

Carries trade early game weakness for late game strength.


Except in S3 carries were nerfed and bruisers were buffed, so now bruisers don't really lose any strength at all late game, while carries definitely don't deal as much damage as they used to with a full build.


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ElementzPRO

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
EzraTwitch:
Bruisers Strongest Early Game, Weakest Mid Game (Comparativly), Medium Strength late game.

ADC's Strongest Late game, Medium Strength Mid game, Weak Early Game.

AP Mage Strongest Mid game, Medium Strength Late Game, Weak Early Game.

Obviously Exceptions exist but basically this.

(Nasus and Veiger come to mind as they are basically a Late Game Bruiser Carry, and A Late Game Mage Carry respectivly).

NOTE*Supports strength varys depending on support and the comp they are supporting as they are more a force amplifier then anything.


ADC and bruisers are both stronger than AP mid game because they have mobility
people only choose mobile AD like ezreal anyway it used to be true that ADC had a bad mid game when people chose trist and ashe but not anymore


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Kise

Recruiter

12-21-2012

Quote:
CynicalGiant:
AP burst is dead

I disagree. Again, you have to be smart about team select. Using one burst champ (say, the mage mid) is okay as long as the majority of the team can provide the missing ingredients - AoE, sustained damage, hard cc, other utility.

Most stats can be provided with the new items.


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Joebags

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Nard Daawg:
Have fun not running any AP on your team and having the opposing team stack armor. Enjoy the loss


Lol, armor. What's that? *buys 3 black cleavers*


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EzSkillshot

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
ElementzPRO:
AP carries arent viable basically
AP mid supports are viable

mage damage falls off too hard so you have to pick someone for their utility which means all carries are out


Orianna damage is low?
Twisted fate damage is low?
Karthus damage is low?
Anivia damage is low?
Swain damage is low?
Kat damage is low?
Cass damage is low?
Ryze damage is low?
Vlad damage is low?
Viktor damage is low?

The unranked door is that way. ->


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Pomf Skweezy

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Luna Drago:
There are some late game AP mages that do good damage late game, Ori, Karthus, Anivia, but the problem is there just aren't many.


This guy gets it.

Sustained damage mages either need high sustained damage like Karthus or Ziggs, or be geared more towards the utility role like Anivia or Orianna.

One of the big problems is that Riot just don't release mages that often.


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samson920

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Buff AP