[Suggestion] RE: Queue dodge timer 'punishment'

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Proxymoron

Member

12-20-2012

Most of what I have to say is probably incredibly obvious. To sum it up, the 30 minute queue dodge timer is ridiculous. Feel free to skip to the TLDR near the bottom which still contains a bit of text but focuses on 'the point' of this thread.

So I'm sure this has been discussed and ranted about many many times. My suggestion has even surfaced several times, because to me it makes a lot of sense and seems obvious to a ton of players. I will be focusing on the ranked 30 minute 'break' that is forced on players who dodge since the normal delay isn't really that big of an issue. It's only like 5 minutes.

Now I've even posted on this matter in the past though I can't remember when or to what extent. There is simply no reason for the 30 minute punish to exist. That's thing #1. It is very extreme to a person who's aching to play especially to someone who only has a limited time frame to do it. Also, it has caused more problems for single/duo queue than it has solved from my perspective. What is happening is people are intentionally doing obvious troll **** to force a dodge because they do not want to suffer the 30 minutes themselves and feel the game is worth avoiding. It's hard to believe... right? Nah.. it's very easy to believe and I'm sure Riot is fully aware of it, we just haven't seen anything done about it yet.

An alternative that I feel would be far more effective is a vote kick system that I know has been mentioned before. Before I discuss the benefits of this I want to touch on the intended benefit of the 30 minute delay as well as it's major drawbacks solo and duo queue players have to suffer through.

The intended logic behind the 30 minute delay:
- Players won't dodge unless they are fully prepared to wait 30 minutes. Less dodges will occur because players will be more willing to adapt and fill gaps than wait 30 minutes to play.

The problems:
- It doesn't work, for several reasons and in several circumstances.
- Innocent people forced to wait 30 minutes for biting the unavoidable bullet.
- People trolling because they didn't get what they wanted to force an innocent to dodge.
- People trolling because they are unsatisfied with the team composition in order to force a dodge from someone else.
- People trolling just because they want to.
- More often than not, the troll or trolls attempting to force a dodge are still present when the match is 'remade'. Be it on your team or the enemy team, they are still there - which also more often than not ends up in chain dodges. (yes I realize the solution is to remove yourself from the queue and wait about 30 seconds to hopefully get a different batch of people.. but still.)
- TROLLS need I say it more? lol. Seriously though, since the timer was jacked up to 30 minutes there are more trolls than ever because nobody wants to take that hit.

An example..
Pick order Jim, Meg/Bob, Tom/Lee

Jim: i can top or jung
Bob: top plz
*Jim bans #1
Meg: ADC
Bob: top plz
Bob: top plz
*Jim bans #2
Jim: k i'll jung np calm down lol
Bob: k
Tom: adc
*Jim bans #3
Lee: we need a support
Tom: i calld adc
*Jim picks Jungle
Meg: i called it first sry
Lee: meg called it first
Tom: too bad im adc
Jim: meg can u go mid or somethin?
*Meg picks ADC
*Bob picks Top
Lee: guess i'm support then..
*Lee picks soraka
Lee: Tom plz just go mid
*Tom locks ADC with clairvoyance and revive
Lee: great
Tom: idc i want adc sory dodge if u want
Lee: well at least change your summoner spells maybe i can mid with soraka.
*Tom does nothing

clocks ticking.. people talking.. 3.. 2... 1... Jim dodges.

In what world is this moral? Why does Jim have to wait 30 minutes? Jim and Lee being the two most flexible people on the team. If anyone should have to wait 30 minutes it's Tom (for being a jerkoff) or Meg (for not being flexible and staying adc knowing that Tom is dedicated to his choice). This is but one reason and one circumstance that the system fails and basically punishes an innocent person. Sure, some people will say "get a life go watch TV or go outside for 30 mins or somethin", fact is for all we know Jim works 10 hours a day and only has time for a couple games and just got his gaming plans crapped on for not wanting to play with idiots. I don't see why Jim should suffer through a bad game OR wait 30 minutes, do you?

=======================
TLDR + vote kick explanation
=======================
A vote kick system only implemented for ranked single/duo queue can eliminate most if not all of the problems that are a direct result of the 30 minute timer. First, what happens when you get vote kicked? YOU are the one waiting 30 minutes (or an amount of time deemed suitable by Riot if this is ever implemented). What happens if the person you are duo queued with gets vote kicked? They have the timer you don't. You are responsible for who you choose to duo with. If you really want to play with them, wait 30 minutes with them. If not, you are still free to queue. With those questions answered...

Implementation and tech behind the scenes:
- A button (preferably with the image of Mordekaiser's boot) beside each player on your team.
- Each player can only vote for one person to be kicked. No spamming the vote button on all 4 people hoping someone gets removed! However, you can change your vote in the event of misclicks - but only once. This would be accomplished by voting a different person. Upon voting for that second person your option to change your mind is gone.
- If no duo queue players are present then a unanimous vote of all other 4 players is required for you to be removed.
- If a duo is present and you are not one of them then the rules are the same as above. All 4 other people must vote for you to vanish.
- If a duo is present and you are one of them, the 3 people's votes outside of the duo are required for you to be removed.
- After all champions are selected and during the final countdown these votes will be monitored each frame in code. If a player reaches the required votes at any time during this period the game is void and that person punished.
- Optional: Consider adding an increment timer that increases per vote kick going from 10 minutes to 20 minutes to 30 minutes. This would be just for that insanely rare occasion when 4 people team up on an innocent person for no reason

Summary of forcing a punishment on an individual's choice versus giving that choice to the other players present.
Pros:
- A nice dose of Ortho Troll B Gon. Acting stupid and spoiled to force another to take the 30 minute hit is a thing of the past.
- Players love choices.
- Less dodges, because it's only logical that there would be less dodges. One of two things has to happen. ALL FOUR (or 3 if you're duo) people have to want you gone or you choose to dodge. You will likely only get unanimously voted if you deserve it and you will likely only choose to dodge if the team comp is so atrocious that the timed consequence is well worth it to avoid playing the match.

Cons:
- Evil people like choices too.
- Probably rare, but the potential for an innocent player to get vote kicked is there - if only minor. To solve this I recommend a "everybody gets one" policy. As in, don't give someone a 30 minute wait for their first vote kick within a certain time frame (maybe around 2 hours to ensure people don't exploit it every single time they queue). Alternatively, an unreasonable plethora of if checks to determine if that player deserved the vote kick or not.

Thumbs up if you like the vote kick idea that has probably been previously mentioned by many people (including me.. I think). I'm too lazy to search the entirety of League forums. Too many people play this game, thread count too stronk.

Thanks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Arcticfury

Senior Member

12-20-2012

I'd love the ability to both report and kick players during champ select. But removing the dodge timer is ridiculous, you'd have to be extremely thick and/or slow to not see this (like an 80 IQ or lower on your best day). Instead of the trolls forcing a kick they'd simply dodge, making me waste another 6 mins starting a new game just to have another person dodge because they got countered, followed by another 6 mins because the last player doesn't want support but was too busy grabbing a soda, followed by another 6 mins wasted, and so on. There is no reason that the 8 players that weren't trolling or dodging should have to pay because of the other two toxic players.

Dodging is JUST as TOXIC as trolling. The problem now is that only one of the two behaviors is penalized, and not penalized hard enough. Should be 15 mins for first dodge (to allow for a bad connection, the benefit of the doubt, etc), 1 hour for second dodge in 24 hours (if you are dodging more than once then you are a problem and need to have the same penalties as AFKers + 50%), 4 hours for 3rd dodge. Likewise we need penalties for trolls, and penalties for kicking players that shouldn't be kicked. You shouldn't be able to spam kick a player because they got countered or because you're better at instigating a kick in chat.

I know I've read somewhere from a Red that Riot is considering a better solution now than the extremely weak 30 min penalty and no recourse for trolling.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xanphen

Junior Member

12-21-2012

I can't support removing the dodge timer (it's the only thing that keeps alot of the drafts moving forward) but Riot should enable logging and reporting for draft pick behavior.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

shamgar

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Junior Member

01-30-2013

The 30+ minute lockouts are ridiculous. I had a team with barrier/ghost kass and I dodged after another game with similar problems. now I'm locked out for an hour...

It kind of sucks when someone who doesn't talk in team chat makes me wait for an hour!