Ask the Thunder's Roar, v2

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Ask Shyvana

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Shyvana jumped a little in surprise, but her expression did not waver. She turned to fave Udyr, frowning with a bored attentiveness.

"What is it?" She asked, her tone deadpan.


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AskUdyr

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Udyr drew his hand back and promptly slapped Shyvana, his Bear aspect prominent. The beast man snarled and started his explanation, "Was that an evil action? No. It was not. Just as your reaction to slaughter me, ripping my organs out, would not be evil if you wished to retaliate in such a manner. You may try and theorize within your societal ideas of good and evil, but make no mistake, survival is the key aspect of every beings' life. If I tried to kill you now, would you defend yourself and slay me or would you let me? If you let me, you are dead. If you do not, then you are allegedly evil because you killed something. The claim of self defense is flimsy, you know it, I know it, do not rely on it."

Udyr's eyes narrowed while he snorted flames from his nostrils. "All life is, every single being in this world survives through this following manner: Through the destruction of others! Whether it is the simplest blade of grass trod upon to the mightiest of beasts, that is destruction! You are an animal, I am an animal, Volibear is an animal, the Duchess is an animal, everyone is a Gods Damned animal! Is Wukong a human? No! He is a monkey! Am I a human? Yes. I am. Being an animal does not mean not having sentience! Being an animal means you strip yourself of the simple black and white, good and evil ideals, and embrace the ideal of survival and follow your instinct! You do as you please! You become as free as the clouds, not bound by social constraints or ideals and live as you wish without having to justify yourself to anyone! Volibear is an animal that does not fall within the purview of the philosophical ideals that makes a human a human. He is a bear, as it is in his name! Calling Volibear a human is a slap in his face! He is a bear, the Chieftain of the Ursine, the strongest and wisest of the Ursine, and you dare insult who is meant to be your superior in such a ridiculous matter?!"

Udyr cricked his fingers, "In his words: You are still a cub. Stop presuming you know every damn thing in life before living it! Learn from those who have lived a harsher life than you! I had to learn, and that is why I am Udyr and not that horrid birth name my parents gave me! I choose to be Udyr! You saying Volibear is anything else but who he is, is the greatest insult you can give anyone!" The beast man's flames flickered about him. Instead of their usual, orange color, one could see the white heat that seemed to hiss from him. "Do I make myself clear, Shyvana, or do I have to beat sense into you?"


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Ask Shyvana

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Shyvana snarled.

"These are not the Fields of Justice, human, our strengths are not equal." She said. "Try it. Just TRY it, and I promise you, your beard will be the biggest piece of you anyone finds. You missed my point, you believe I called Volibear a human, you know nothing about what I have said."

She shook her head.

"You attempt to spout a whole speech in one sitting in an attempt to validate your argument." She said. "I will have none of it. We will do this properly. So, Tell me, when did I call Volibear a human?"


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AskUdyr

Senior Member

12-30-2012

"You are correct: Our strength is not equal. I have killed larger and stronger creatures than you. You would be decimated, Shyvana. You are inexperienced compared to us. You would fall dismembered at our feet. I have been in the League longer than you have, I have lived longer than you have, I have trained longer than you have, I have dedicated my fist into killing those who oppose me, and you think you have the gall to think you are my greater? You are still naive. Youthful. You do not understand the pivot point of rage. The only reason you are not dead now is because, with all due honesty, a Summoner is here. You did not hear me. You did not see me. You did not smell me. You were dead the moment I was able to get behind you."

Udyr waved the half-dragon off, "But that is not the point. The point is the context of the the word 'person' and how you used it. Let me remind you."

The beast man recounted what Shyvana had said, word for word, in her own voice, "I find it amazing that you can stand here and talk about how things work in nature, while speaking to me in english and wearing your fancy armor. You are not an animal, Volibear. I never thought a human or half of one would have to argue this to an Ursine and not the other way around, but you are not an animal. You are a person. If you think yourself an animal, strip all this off and go hunt deer, interacting with your fellow Ursine only to fight for territory or breed. The moment you put this armor on and started saying 'I', you stopped being a bear. You started being a person. You have no right to speak of nature as anything more than a concept one discusses over tea while taking a break from the real world."

Udyr roared at Shyvana, "YOU DESCRIBED HUMAN SOCIETAL EXPECTATIONS AND MORALITY WHILE USING THE NOUN OF PERSON RATHER THAN KEEPING THEM SEPERATE! THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID! HE IS STILL AN ANIMAL BECAUSE HE IS AN ANIMAL!"

The beast man gave Shyvana another disciplinary slap before continuing, "What does an animal mean to you? I am an animal! You are an animal! He is an animal! We are all animals! You do not say he is not an animal and then equate it with a contradictory statement such as calling them a person and then subjugate human ideals and values to him! So what if he speaks Common? Does that mean he is not allowed to? He can reason, he can think, he chooses to be a bear, an animal, because that is who he chooses to be! It is that way of thinking that gives humans and beings a sense of gross superiority! Are all bears just large, lumbering beasts that eat fish and mate as you say? Do you know why they do not speak with us? Because they do not speak Common! They do not speak human! When you have an animal that does, that automatically constitutes them as a 'person'? Varied animals use tools in order to help them! The dolphins I have spoken to use sponges to aid them when they wish to probe rougher surfaces for their meal. Does that mean they are no longer animals and are now what you would consider people?! Does animal intellect bear nothing on you? An animal does what they wish without regret, without grief, without any of the inane, enforced societal standards that are put in place by apparent civilized cultures! Do you know how the Ursine are? Do you know their culture? Do you know if they drink tea? Do you know if more than one of them wears armor? Do you know if more than one of them speaks? Do you know what their values are? Do you know what their morals are if they have them? Do you care? No, you do not! If you did, you would not be using such think upon terms such as Good, and Evil, or how Noxian in view he is! Noxian in view?! Do you realize that Ionians, Demacians and Noxians ALL SHARE SIMILAR BASE IDEALS? It is impossible not to!"

The beast man's teeth were bared as his voice grew in volume, "What does feral mean? It means to be wild, to be untamed, to not be domesticated and under the subjugation of someone else! Is the chiefdom of the Ursine people a idea created through the idea of domestication or is it more akin to the idea of a wolf pack, an idea that can still be seen in aspects of varied cultures?! To be wild, untamed, means to not be domesticated, to not be bred and forced to live under the standards of others that they deem more beneficial to them and not necessarily as beneficial to the animals themselves! Their will, their freedom, is bent, broken, shattered! Domestication, slavery, is what happened to Alistar's race! To understand the nature of others is to understand your own, and you do not! If you did, you would not be trying to invalidate him or his points when he is one who communes with the very Heavens themselves! He is the Thunder's Roar! Are you saying I am not attuned to nature, a man who communicates with any creature in their own tongue, who is host to several spiritual animal aspects because I have a human's body, therefore I am not an animal?! I can speak any language I desire, from the chirps of the birds to the clicks of a whale! If he says that he understands what nature is because he is a literalbear who has lived a far harsher life than one whose father died for being too weak to live, who communicates with the Heavens themselves and whose entire culture has been based around more primal ideals rather than the more domesticated societal ideals you grew up in?! You know nothing of his culture, of the Ursine, anything about them, and need to educate yourself before you compare them to the people of Piltover and their Gods damned tea!"

Udyr's fingers cricked as his bones rubbed against one another, "The short version of this is: Animals are people, people are animals! You do not say there is a separation between the two and instill human societal norms onto him! You do not decide what he is! His choice is his own! Should I decide what you are? How would you react to that? Do not ever, EVER, put your own ideals of what something should be onto others! I am stubborn, I say what I believe is true, and if you do not wish to follow them, then I hold nothing against you. I may call you stupid, I may think you wrong, but if you are able to continue living, to continue surviving, then who am I to say anything otherwise?"

Udyr's knuckles groaned as he hunched to the ground. He growled aloud, "Have I made myself clear, or should I act like the other, apparently irrational animals you think them to be and proceed to tear out your jugular and ravage your carcass before hibernating for the winter?"


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Ask Shyvana

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Shyvana gave Udyr a slap of her own.

"Speak NOTHING of my father." She demanded. "So tell me.If good or evil do not exist, if you are one of nature, above them, uncaring of them... why do you bring up slavery, as a matter of consequence, as a bad thing? Could it be that it's a bad thing, after all?" She shook her head. "You lie to me and you lie to yourself when you claim either of you are above the concepts of good or evil. They are not strictly human things, just as they are not merely the stuff of yordles, or Nami's people, or Fizz's people. You are intelligent enough to contradict yourself, and you are clearly intelligent enough to grasp what good or evil are. Don't you dare act like you are above them. You have contradicted yourself already."


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AskUdyr

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Shyvana View Post
Shyvana gave Udyr a slap of her own.

"Speak NOTHING of my father." She demanded. "So tell me.If good or evil do not exist, if you are one of nature, above them, uncaring of them... why do you bring up slavery, as a matter of consequence, as a bad thing? Could it be that it's a bad thing, after all?" She shook her head. "You lie to me and you lie to yourself when you claim either of you are above the concepts of good or evil. They are not strictly human things, just as they are not merely the stuff of yordles, or Nami's people, or Fizz's people. You are intelligent enough to contradict yourself, and you are clearly intelligent enough to grasp what good or evil are. Don't you dare act like you are above them. You have contradicted yourself already."
The beast man's face did not move from the slap, save for his beard. A few bright red lines appeared on his cheek due to Shyvana's claws dragging across his skin. He rolled his eyes and let out a growl, "You speak as though no one else's parents had ever died ever in the history of Runeterra. My birth parents were killed during the war because they were too weak to defend themselves. They were old, they were weak, they were killed, just like your father. I hold nothing against the Noxians that found them and killed them. That is a part of life, that is nature. Someone stronger found them and killed them: It happens. I killed the monk who had raised me with my own fist. He was too old, too slow by that time to evade me, and he died. I am aware of what I speak of. They died as they should, for being weak."

The beast man's eyes narrowed while his brow knitted. His voice rumbled, "Domestication, slavery, is the price of being a part of almost every society that humans and Yordles subscribe themselves to. That is when you take away concepts such as nature, the realization of one's being, and you start trying to 'fit in', you start pandering to the wills of others, then you start trying to justify yourself in the lights of good, and bad. I am tied to none. My choice is my own. I am here in the League of my own choice, I can leave the League by my choice, I can let Ionia burn by my choice, I can do whatever I want, all in accordance to my choice, and why? Because I am Udyr! If you are able to break me, then I deserve it! The minotaurs were broken because they were too weak! Good? Evil? No, they deserve their fate if they are unable to fight for themselves! They had not chosen to be a part of Noxian society, and were broken into being domesticated! Their weakness was their undoing! To be broken, to be bent, is not something that is meant to be celebrated, but it is not something that I can particularly care about. I am not them. I do not want to be domesticated. I am Udyr. I am feral, I choose my own path in life, no one carves a different path for me, and none can break my will. I do not want to be domesticated. If you are able to, if you break me, then I deserve to be broken. It is not good, not evil, it simply is. That is life, not good, not evil, it just is."

Udyr let out a burst of laughter and shook his head, his voice thick with a mocking tone, "Good and evil is incredibly subjective! It is not 'good' and 'evil' in your sense of view, you put behind morality in them! If one is injured, that is not 'good'. Being comfortable within your own skin is 'good'. Being injured brings forth 'bad' feelings. Being broken does not invoke 'good' feelings, but it is not evil. That is the problem with the limitations of the Common language, you have abstained to such archetypical definitions that you forget there is more than one definition for them, and once you hear the word you disregard the context and latch onto the said word. To have my arm torn off does not mean I will shrug and not care, I will act within the laws of nature: An eye for an eye. You attack me, I will attack you. You try breaking me, I will break you. I hold no grudges, I hold nothing against you for trying, but I will kill you if need be. It is not good, it is not evil, not within the view and definition you speak of: It simply is."

The beast man tapped the side of his mouth, "As I stated in my earlier example: Your father deserved death because he was weak. I do not care about the circumstances that surround his death, the matter of fact is that he is dead and his attacker lived. You went back for revenge and killed his attacker. You did it out of anger, out of spite, out of apparently negative emotions: Does that make you evil? You killed someone else out of pure anger and spite. How does that justify you as good? To animals, to nature, it simply is. To Demacians, you go into morality upon morality upon morality and justification and the faulted idea of justice. At the end of the day, you are alive, they are dead, and that is all that matters. You can use morality to help you try and sleep better at night, meanwhile an animal accepts the idea of death because that is the cycle of life: It happens."


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Ask Shyvana

Senior Member

12-30-2012

"You are a selfish coward." Shyvana said. "There is nothing I can do to argue with you, because you hide behind your fortune cookie philosophy. Anything you want to do that is selfish, sadistic, evil? Oh it is what it is it happened that's all it is! They are your safety blanket. You took the wise teachings of the Ionians and you warped them to further justify yourself. You are too much of an infant to give up things you want for the benefit and aid of others. You, Udyr, are the worst kind of coward: a strong, educated one. You know that what you do is wrong, but anytime you are called out on it, you either resort to violence, or cower behind infantile selfishness disguised as transcendent philosophy." She shook her head. "I'd rather have this discussion with Gangplank. At least, when he spouts his selfish drivel, he's honest about it. Not just with me, but with himself."


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Suripi Okami

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Volibear View Post



Bjorn looked up at the person who had just walked in and tilted his head to one side.

"A bad time for what? Can I help you?"

((The timeline is generally all over the place in this. The time Voli's talking to Nunu is different from the time he's talking to Shyv is different from whatever time he's talking to you. Don't worry about it.))
Oh um.....No...I mean yes....but maybe......Why am I talking to myself,now I look like a idiot!?!
I'm sorry!!!
Now I forgot my question entirely!
NOOOO!!!


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AskUdyr

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Shyvana View Post
"You are a selfish coward." Shyvana said. "There is nothing I can do to argue with you, because you hide behind your fortune cookie philosophy. Anything you want to do that is selfish, sadistic, evil? Oh it is what it is it happened that's all it is! They are your safety blanket. You took the wise teachings of the Ionians and you warped them to further justify yourself. You are too much of an infant to give up things you want for the benefit and aid of others. You, Udyr, are the worst kind of coward: a strong, educated one. You know that what you do is wrong, but anytime you are called out on it, you either resort to violence, or cower behind infantile selfishness disguised as transcendent philosophy." She shook her head. "I'd rather have this discussion with Gangplank. At least, when he spouts his selfish drivel, he's honest about it. Not just with me, but with himself."
Quote:
"You are a selfish coward." "At least, when he spouts his selfish drivel, he's honest about it. Not just with me, but with himself."
Quote:
Coward.
There was no tell for Udyr's strike due to its speed, save for a brief glint in his eye. By the time one could see his fist, it was already flying straight at Shyvana's face, his muscles groaning from the sheer impact he threw his entire body's weight with in order to uppercut the half-dragon. Fire billowed and roared from him, the wind howled from the cutting path of his fist. He was most definitely angry and thoroughly insulted.

His integrity was questioned, and he was called a coward. No one questions his integrity. No one.


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BloatedBile

Senior Member

12-30-2012

dear master bjorn,

chief volibo- volibear's outake on life reminds me of poodyr's. could u ask him if they are friends or aquantiences?

-bb

ps: if the manbearcat is there, pls dispose of this letter.