My ABAM Tier List

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Killzerz

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackDAILO View Post
So what? He still offers close to nothing in a fully committed fight. Yeah, his poke early game might be great, there are heroes that offer better pokes while giving themselves sustain.

If you are still questioning me, please look at Galio and Maokai. Both have AoE ranged pokes, some form of hard CC, and a lot more presence in teamfights. They also have a far more tanky kit than what Mundo offers.
Difference of opinion. I think Mundo has a better presence, you think otherwise. Sorry, I'm not moving him down.


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innervation

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Killzerz is right, I put mundo as best end game tank period. He peels, chases, does solid damage that isn't skill shot reliant, and CANNOT die. Someone with any experience on a mundo will wreak havoc past 18 minutes.


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ZEN Easy

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Recruiter

12-22-2012

changes i would personally make:
GOD TIER: Sona, Yi, Varus
Tier 1: janna tf

sona aegis athene = team never die lots of dmg aoe ult op
yi = q minions for harass which means easy gold until u can just 1v5 when they are all at 50%~ hp
varus = does ridiculous safe damage with q early game and his ult is easy to hit everyone

janna = full heal team with ult , q does huge dmg and will always clear wave (your towers never die and you can even shield them) protects ad carry da best

tf = safest big dmg dealer in game always clear wave and you never die to enemy, you just teleport to back tower to suicide


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ploki122

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by innervation View Post
Killzerz is right, I put mundo as best end game tank period. He peels, chases, does solid damage that isn't skill shot reliant, and CANNOT die. Someone with any experience on a mundo will wreak havoc past 18 minutes.

I honestly, have to disagree with the OP's mundo opinion, chose to quote this one because of a certain quote.

First of all, to the guy that said having a god-tier tank was useless, I honestly believe you underestimate them... I would go 3 tank (let's say Malphite, Maokai and Sejuani) + 2 pokers way more than Lux + Nidalee + Sona + 2 fillers, on any days...

Next, I don't think you can actually disregard the %heal reduction for mundo... his passive AND ultimate are based on that... However, I don't think that alone is solid enough to completely lynch him.

The real problem that mundo suffers from, imo, is basically his lack or reliable CC and the fact that although he can apparently ignore damage, he can, in most cases, be kited and/or ignored.

Now the reason I chose to quote this post is because you have to understand that most games are settled once you hit the 20 minutes mark (either a team has snowballed and is winning/has won, or the team with the best late game managed to survive through and are at least tied.) So saying mundo is a beast past 8 minutes feels a little late to me. When I want a god-tier champ, I try to find someone who will be strong from the 10 minute mark at the very least, or with a strong early game that can be snowballed on pre-11.



Now for the Karthus-Vei, it really is a fight of opinions, an like you 2, I have my opinions :
1) I love how you say that Karthus is threatening because of his range but still discards Lux, Ziggs and Xerath as ignorable. (and none of their cd are 1s, but they're usually 5-, so not really a constraint there either)
2) Veigar simply can't 1-shot anyone... the game will be over way before that.
3) Veigar's ult has really low rag, so unless you manage to stun the opponent god-tier AP, you won't have an easy time killing it.
4) Karthus' ult has less cd than barrier, and it deals way more damage than it.
5) 4 AD + 1 good AP, build no MR and you're dead.
6) Karthus' biggest problem is actually his sustain/mobility.


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Killzerz

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy View Post
changes i would personally make:
GOD TIER: Sona, Yi, Varus
Tier 1: janna tf

sona aegis athene = team never die lots of dmg aoe ult op
yi = q minions for harass which means easy gold until u can just 1v5 when they are all at 50%~ hp
varus = does ridiculous safe damage with q early game and his ult is easy to hit everyone

janna = full heal team with ult , q does huge dmg and will always clear wave (your towers never die and you can even shield them) protects ad carry da best

tf = safest big dmg dealer in game always clear wave and you never die to enemy, you just teleport to back tower to suicide
Good points. TF I placed a little low, that was my mistake. With Janna I knew she was strong, but I needed more people to weigh in with their opinions. Sona is really strong, might just move her up to god tier. Varus is spectacular, just not sure if he is better than Jayce. Finally, Yi is very very strong but in only certain situations. He can be counterpicked, and the fact Blitz is in ever damn game means he really never gets a chance to shine. If somehow Blitz isn't in ever game, Yi in god tier np.


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innervation

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Hard AP Janna is Jayce tier because of that pushing and tower defense. Jayce doesn't have that shield and heal, but he's obviously much better suited to hold up against a tanky cc + assassin combo that hard AP janna will just die to.

Varus is as good as jayce because of Varus' e - a ranged slow + heal redux, and a great soft cc from his ult.


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innervation

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ploki122 View Post

The real problem that mundo suffers from, imo, is basically his lack or reliable CC and the fact that although he can apparently ignore damage, he can, in most cases, be kited and/or ignored.

Now the reason I chose to quote this post is because you have to understand that most games are settled once you hit the 20 minutes mark (either a team has snowballed and is winning/has won, or the team with the best late game managed to survive through and are at least tied.) So saying mundo is a beast past 8 minutes feels a little late to me. When I want a god-tier champ, I try to find someone who will be strong from the 10 minute mark at the very least, or with a strong early game that can be snowballed on pre-11.
Look, Trynd starts to be a real contributor at around the 15-18 minute mark, but he has almost 0 game before that besides being a little annoying on a team already well equipped for tower diving.

Mundo has easy % damage poke from level 3 (very nice projectile speed, basically resource free). He's solid at 6. Q is still % damage the rest of the mid game. Liandry's + full tank = unkillable damage machine.

And suppose you come up with a scenario that he can be kited...it usually takes 2 people. That leaves his team in a 4v3 and 20 seconds later, they'll meet up with a Mundo on 5% hp running at 440 ms with his ult ticking as they seek out the last 2 enemies to kill.


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regalic

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Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killzerz View Post
Why ABAM not ARAM? ARAM relies on way too much luck, so instead I will look at ABAM which allows for some actual strategies for picking. No reason for a tier list in a truly random gametype, you are stuck with what you get!

[U]God tier: Jayce, Blitzcrank, Nidalee, Dr. Mundo, Karthus, Sona

Tier 1: Master Yi, Katarina, Lux, Karma, Ahri, Diana, Vlad, Ezreal, Zyra, Ziggs, Heimerdinger, Urgot, Ryze, Zilean, Xerath, Kassadin, Varus, Sivir, Yorick, Talon, Kayle, Kha'Zix, Kog'Maw, Miss Fortune, Mordekaiser, Nami, Janna, Pantheon, Swain, Fiddlesticks, Galio, Maokai, Nunu, Malphite, Twisted Fate, Teemo, Akali
!
Heimer is basically a insta win, how come you don't have him at God tier, just max rockets and get free kills


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Tritotamar

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Stopped reading when I saw Graves, Cass, Corki, and Kennen in tier 3.

Bad list.


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Killzerz

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritotamar View Post
Stopped reading when I saw Graves, Cass, Corki, and Kennen in tier 3.

Bad list.
I'll move Graves up, thank you. However, Cass I find can't really carry. She has limited range when she E's, and while she is good at harass, there are many others better than her at it. Why not choose Karthus that does everything she does, just 10x better? She does have her ult but I find it to be mostly unreliable and only useful when you are going to lose anyway. Corki...can't poke until 6. Most other ADs can, netting him in tier 3. He's better than tier 3, its just he is far worse than most other AD carries, landing him there. Kennen...what he pokes with a very avoidable Q and his R is pretty bad until level 11 at which point it is decent, and only good past level 16 in which most games have already been decided in.