Feedback on S3 Items on ARAM

First Riot Post
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innervation

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
The item still has applications. If there's any chance it can be used in a smart fashion, I wouldn't want to remove it unless the trap case was very negative.

Its passive also remains applicable to champions like Malzahar and Elise.
While I think people throw around the term "trap item" a bit too loosely, I really think it applies here. Not because 5 people can destroy it, but because the active is unuseable when the inhib is down. Also, because +AP/Armor already exists on a very desirable item.

I would expect that a counter argument would start off with something like "yes, but you got to use it how many times before that? 4-5?" Rarely - in my experience. Why? Because you can't afford to rush this item in order to maximize the use of the active. Additionally, the opportunity cost of the item (the things you could be buying otherwise) are SO GOOD, that the power you sacrifice by buying this item isn't worth the aura it might give to pets on your team.

1. Pretty much everyone who wants this item is a mana user, and needs a tear or chalice, or both first.

2. If you're a support looking at this item, you have to get bulwark first. Bulwark is too good to prioritize Banner over it. Then you have to think about shard, zekes, wota, as well as cdr and possibly damage. Knowing that you already have tear + bulwark + boots, how many more siege minions are going to spawn this game with an inhib up? Is it smart to get Banner at this point over one of those other compelling options? I don't think it's in the discussion currently.

3. If you are Malzahar or Elise, you could theoretically rush it after one mana item, but that means you have no +hp, no magic resistance, and no progress toward a zhonya's or hat. If you could apply the aura to the 'pets' that are classified as 'traps', I think that would make the item a more reasonable purchase. (AP shaco isn't that mana hungry and might think about this item, Zyra's plants are strong enough that I think she would consider it as well. Maokai less so).

4. If I'm an ap tank like mummy or mundo...I just can't justify getting this item considering the opportunity cost of the magi res / HP / damage / aura that I could be getting otherwise.

--

At the end of the day, I can't sit here and tell you that there is "no chance it can be used in a smart fashion" I definitely vote for "improve" over remove. One or two of the following:

>Make it affect 'trap' type pets.
>Add a health or magi res component.
>Change the active to affect either siege or super minions (whichever is available), or change it to affect melee or ranged creeps. You should never NOT be able to use the active if the c/d is available.
>Give the aura an additional bonus to allied champions.


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Brinsor

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Maybe, if you get 10k gold, you can build Triforce, InfEdge, Warmogs, and Zhonyas and then combine them all to create "The Legacy of Noxus" for Noxian Champions, and "The Legacy of Demacia" for Demacian Champs. They would be like a complete mix of all the stated items, and it would be unbalanced and Overpowered as ****. But cmon, when will anyone ever be able to afford that ****.


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i Nappy Ninja

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Recruiter

12-21-2012

First off, thanks for this map! Love it. all i play is PG except to get my 150. (which i hope will change with future matchmaking )
Second, thanks for fixing black cleaver unique, that thing was BROKEN
Third, please please please bring back Force of Nature. There are so many big armor items (Frozen Heart, Randuins, Thorn) but the highest Mag Res item is at 50. which is peanuts seeing how if you play blind PG 4 out of 5 are Mages. makes it very hard to tank any game with mages


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Garruks Champion

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
The item still has applications. If there's any chance it can be used in a smart fashion, I wouldn't want to remove it unless the trap case was very negative.

Its passive also remains applicable to champions like Malzahar and Elise.
"I need feedback on items"

"Oh here this item"

"Your dumb, that item is fine"

WTF?

And on topic, no one wants banner, I built it once when I saw the aura, so I decided to give it a try, at the end of the day its just AR and AP which you can get in a better item and not have to worry about the cost of selling banner late game this is because pets and minions tend to just melt in the AOE burst attacks that are common on this map. The only pets that can really survive it are ghosts and tibbers, and at the end of the day, those pets generally don't need the aura buff


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Flashis

Junior Member

12-21-2012

I REALLY miss Force of Nature here....


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Beravin

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Please keep in mind that these are just my personal experiences and opinions with the items. By no means do I speak for anyone else, these are just my thoughts. I only play ARAM PG, and this is how I feel about the new items:

Runic Bulwark: An excellent item and a must have for almost every game. I often start off with Emblem of Valour because of how important and effective this item is. I get it often, and early. It is between strong and overpowered.
Edit: This item is definantly overpowered, but I feel it needs to be to serve its defensive purpose.

Black Cleaver: Was overpowered on release without a doubt. After its nerf, I still feel it is strong. I am glad that it is no longer stackable. I expect to still use it on several champions. I particularly enjoy its cost efficiency and stats.

Warmogs Armour: Feels underwhelming. Health is not hard to get, and the regeneration is rarely worth it over resist and armour. Even against high poke teams, I do not like this item. It just feels like it is outclassed/not important.
Edit: Positioning and strategic use of health packs lowers the need for regeneration in many situations.

Ravenous Hydra: Fun, awesome stats, and highly desirable. I am concerned its effects might be too strong for this map. I enjoy having an active item that can be used as often as this. Really helps struggling melee carries/bruisers.

Iceborn Gauntlet: I have not got it often. I feel as if it falls off to Trinity Force in many situations. The stats make it rather awkward. However, some champions (Blitz) love this item. I think it is better than I give it credit for, but I still dont like it.

Liandry's Torment: I am still rather unsure how it works. The fact it upgrades from Haunting Guise already makes it excellent. Its a must have on low cooldown spell spammers. Its passive seems to be weak without a slow or a Rylais.

Banner of Command: I thought this item would be strong at first, but it seems surprisingly weak. The minions do not live long enough to warrant this item. I like its active, but the item itself is not worth it over other choices. It has a low priority.
Edit: I did not realize this worked on pets. That is interesting, but not enough incentive to actually purchase the item.
Edit 2: The fact that the active can not be used when you have super minions completely turns me off this item.

Mikael's Curcible: I have never bought this. I feel its stats are only good for mana intensive champions, and that Athene's Unholy Grail is better. A situational, but average item. I can only see a few choice champions getting this item.
Edit: I actually misread this item. Its active is a lot better than I thought it was, and I think its a nice option for supports.

Muramana: An excellent item that can be exceptionally strong. I do not get it often, but I enjoy it when I do. Seems to only be good on certain champions, but very strong. Situational in most cases, but rewarding and noticeable to use.

Mercurial Scimitar: I do not like this item. In ARAM there is usually too much CC and damage to consider it on the types of champions it is usually good for. Speed boost is not long enough. It would be better if it worked like Cleanse.

Morellonomicon. Never bought, and do not see it often. I personally think its good, but cant find an excuse to build it over other, seemingly more important items. The CDR is awesome. I think this item is underestimated and underused.

Seraph's Embrace: Never used, but seems awesome. That active is excellent, wish there were more like it. I dislike its lack of survivability. Do not see this item very often. I dislike that its stats are specific and only good to some champions.

Runaan's Hurricane: I do not like it much. It feels weaker compared with Ravenous Hydra. Other items are more important. Its lack of stats make it a less important purchase. I feel it needs less focus on AS and more on other stats.
Edit: Its effect is excellent, but useless without other items to back it up/the lack of stats on this item.

Shard Of True Ice: An excellent item, I see it often, and it seems to be well regarded. I think you hit the nail on the head with this item. Strong in ARAM, and in a good place. That said, I wish it had at least a little survivability.

Statikk Shiv: An interesting item that I do not see/use often enough to judge. I personally feel this item is situationally average, and rarely worth it over other, more important items. Its effect should hit a little harder, in my opinion.

Zephyr: An interesting item that I have only ever used on Hecarim, and never actually seen. I think this item is highly underestimated and underutilized at the moment. Just my opinion. Items without survivability are not highly regarded.

I have mixed feelings about the current items. Some are strong, others are weak, many are situational at best. I wont lie though, I dont experiment as much as I should, and I am still getting use to these new items. It was too much at once.

However, I do feel a distinct lack of defensive magic resist choices, and this has been noticed on many occasions.


Edit: In a lot of situations, a CC break is simply not enough when you consider that there are 5 enemy champions. There is usually a high chance of CC being reapplied after breaking it. For ARAM, I feel a CC resistance like Cleanse is better.

Edit 2: While they are not season 3 items, I agree with many other posters that Chalice/Kitae's should be looked into. One lets you poke all day (though some champions need it to function) and the other barely serves its purpose.


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FDru

Senior Member

12-21-2012

I find almost all of the new AD items to be lackluster. IE + PD + Sanguine is still absolutely the godly item combination for carries.

Hurricane is pretty bad, even on Twitch, as the range of the AOE is incredibly small (and on Spray and Pray it seems to only work on his target, not the additional targets). Either you get it early to farm and push, and delay your IE + PD + Sanguine (bad) or you get it later when it's really not that useful at all.

SotD has an awesome active but the punishment for using it is harsh. On this map you aren't just going to be sitting around doing nothing for 60 seconds, so it's really only smart to use it if you're sure you're about to die.

Scimitar is decent on some occasions, but mainly for the active; however, since the change to Malz and WW's ults that is not even as effective as it used to be.

On the other hand, new Executioner's Calling is extremely good given the amount of heal used on PG.


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innervation

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Oh I forgot crucible was in the game. That's a great item for supports who don't necessarily want tear, or mages who want to build more supporty. Taric, Alistar, Zyra, Lulu. Can probably think of others. I've gotten it before and it's VERY rewarding to use. It's everything a good support item (or even champion) should be. The right stats, a powerful active, with a 'clutch' factor on the active.


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CowMeat

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Warmogs- usually I find my opposing team is more AD or AP so I do not normally buy this item. Sometimes it is a late purchase.

Catalyst/Chalice of Harmony/Tear are strong starting items to buy on mana based mages.


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MexicanBeyonce

Junior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
The item still has applications. If there's any chance it can be used in a smart fashion, I wouldn't want to remove it unless the trap case was very negative.

Its passive also remains applicable to champions like Malzahar and Elise.
I think this item would be more beneficial if you change the active ability like this: "Transforms a nearby siege minion to a more powerful unit. OR: Heals an allied supercreep for 100% of it's health. You gain all the gold this unit earns.180 second cooldown.

Like this you could still use it when there aren't any cannon creeps around and it still wouldn't be overpowered because of the high cooldown.

What do you think?