Are Champions As Awesome As They Could Be? - Theming in LoL - @IronStylus, @FeralPony

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BestBilbo

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhawke View Post
Also a hecka lot of downvotes... do you guys have dedicated downvoters as well? XD

Even the comment where I said it was a good topic is getting downvoted like crazy.

ps: BestBilbo, I'm curious about your thoughts on TF. It sounds like you really like him for his uniqueness, but I've always thought his theme felt a bit off. Do you feel the same way? And if so, which is more important, a cohesive and unique kit or a cohesive and unique theme? (Obviously having both is the ideal, but if you had to choose)
Both are very important - his theme and playstyle is about responding and playing/selecting his card after he has analyzed the current situation of the game.

"Never lost a fair game... or played one." - Twisted Fate

TF's theme and playstyle match ALOT - He analyzes a situation and then plays his hand, hence 'Pick A Card' is such a cool ability : P

He basically turns stuff into his favour, looking at the opponent's hand before actually doing something.

Concerning the downvote part:

You, Capt Marvelous and 'TheDreamer' have contributed nothing to the dicussion, atleast you tried a bit where you mention it is a good topic but if you continue posting meaningless stuff it's only logical people to not take you seriously anymore.

That said, I'm not saying me and ItemsGuy haven't downvoted 'meaningless stuff' - I can assure you - we did. Only because you are trying to shut down our discussion just for the sake of shutting it down, we don't think that's entirely fair - though we haven't made smurfs to do so, -2 for all people just trying to pop in me unconstructive or randomly spewing out things.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BestBilbo

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Obviously doesn't have a valid opinion, right?

I don't see IronStylus dominating at 2200 ELO...or any ELO. He only plays normal games. With only Leona or Diana.

Design and concept are unrelated to playing ability.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Crownface

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
But what we really want to do - is create a good variety of champions, so that every player has a few to several champions that they are absolutely stoked about - instead of having like a whole slew of champions that people are not interested in and don't really buy into.
That seems like a great design philosophy, except it's not at all what Riot does.

They've traditionally kept their designs extremely safe and they seem like they're afraid to experiment with anything for fear of creating something that a majority of people won't like, which is really unfortunate, because that's what's pushing the team to do a model/art rework on Trundle, which I think is completely unnecessary, because he's supposed to be disgusting, he's something different that didn't look like anything that had existed in League before. Then, because a majority of people don't enjoy his playstyle or are a little put off by his art, they jump to the conclusion that nothing like him or Urgot can ever be done again, two unique-looking champions with unique skillsets that don't really work all that well for most players, so they're just sticking to safe, generic design like Zed, Darius, Syndra, Diana, champions that have almost the exact same body-type, uninspired lines, and personalities so generic you swear you've seen each of these characters a million times before.

That's not diversity, that's selling exclusively to the majority, which is detrimental to the aesthetics of the game in the long run.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BestBilbo

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
I've said this before, but there is one thing Riot has yet to do thematically: make a champion with a "pet" that really matters.
I'd like this aswell - yeah.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

lol I died again

Member

12-19-2012

Ponies are awesome.
Attachment 577150


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BestBilbo

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crownface View Post
That seems like a great design philosophy, except it's not at all what Riot does.

They've traditionally kept their designs extremely safe and they seem like they're afraid to experiment with anything for fear of creating something that a majority of people won't like, which is really unfortunate, because that's what's pushing the team to do a model/art rework on Trundle, which I think is completely unnecessary, because he's supposed to be disgusting, he's something different that didn't look like anything that had existed in League before. Then, because a majority of people don't enjoy his playstyle or are a little put off by his art, they jump to the conclusion that nothing like him or Urgot can ever be done again, two unique-looking champions with unique skillsets that don't really work all that well for most players, so they're just sticking to safe, generic design like Zed, Darius, Syndra, Diana, champions that have almost the exact same body-type, uninspired lines, and personalities so generic you swear you've seen each of these characters a million times before.

That's not diversity, that's selling exclusively to the majority, which is detrimental to the aesthetics of the game in the long run.
Exactly because League may faces something called oversaturation, explained in detail in the 2nd thread concerning the topic.

Yet again the subject is so sensitive - we don't want to make 'piss-poor' arguments as we would look like fools and never reach any goal with this thread.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ItemsGuy

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningAcorns View Post
I've always felt like this especially for Heimerdinger and Maokai, though is there a specific reason you guys mention realistic elements/behavior when designing or living up to a playstyle or theme, I mean this is a game not reality, is there an explanation?
The whole "realistic elements" is explained by my Statement of Purpose here, but it's a long read so it basically boils down to: "If players can tie elements within the game to elements they can become familiar with before even knowing about LoL (stuff like fire, how plants work, what shotguns do), they can better understand how champions within the game work just by looking at their splash art *IF* champions cohere to their theme in this kind of "realistic" way.

Of course, there's still the element of creativity--you've got a dude on fire that's THROWING this fire, you've got trees that are alive and angry about it, you've got a dude with a shotgun as big as him. It just makes it so that themes that already exist make sense to the player!

I mean, you see Brand throw fire at you, and then it stuns you--what's up with that??

Quote:
That said, I'd say this is an interesting read, I have read the previous threads as well so I recognized you. :y
Thanks very much, and I hop you can contribute more to the conversation here!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Notmrrunningbear

Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Obviously doesn't have a valid opinion, right?

I don't see IronStylus dominating at 2200 ELO...or any ELO. He only plays normal games. With only Leona or Diana.

Design and concept are unrelated to playing ability.
omg u r rite :^]


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ItemsGuy

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crownface View Post
That seems like a great design philosophy, except it's not at all what Riot does.

They've traditionally kept their designs extremely safe and they seem like they're afraid to experiment with anything for fear of creating something that a majority of people won't like,
Which is what we're trying to do here! We're saying that what Riot is doing--playing it save--ISN'T as cool as it can get, and as players of this game, we want it to get there. I, personally, am going to try to make this happen with my own champion designs, as well as a little something I'll mention later (so it doesn't derail the thread).

Quote:
which is really unfortunate, because that's what's pushing the team to do a model/art rework on Trundle, which I think is completely unnecessary, because he's supposed to be disgusting, he's something different that didn't look like anything that had existed in League before.
Are you serious!? I thought the whole rework was to keep his ugliness, but make the *technical* quality of the champion model and splash art match that of the recent stuff. He should appeal to people that want to play an ugly, down-and-dirty, hit-you-with-a-club champion--otherwise, you could play Jayce or Jarvan, for example. Hopefully they won't do anything too drastic, he's one of my favorite characters (that League Judment, man ;_; ).

Quote:
Then, because a majority of people don't enjoy his playstyle or are a little put off by his art, they jump to the conclusion that nothing like him or Urgot can ever be done again, two unique-looking champions with unique skillsets that don't really work all that well for most players, so they're just sticking to safe, generic design like Zed, Darius, Syndra, Diana, champions that have almost the exact same body-type, uninspired lines, and personalities so generic you swear you've seen each of these characters a million times before.
I agree with you wholeheartedly here (although Urgot was designed to be "ugly," but design-wise, he also turned out being ugly--while Trundle is a more artful and premeditated "ugly" which only serves to add to his charm. Urgot's a mess--what is this? What am I looking at? There's no real character behind it too, so it's fairly uncompelling (and he doesn't have the playability to make up for it).

Quote:
That's not diversity, that's selling exclusively to the majority, which is detrimental to the aesthetics of the game in the long run.
Thank you! While there's nothing wrong with appealing to the "mainstream," that should *never* stand in your way as a designer of refreshing and enjoyable content!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BrambleBlast

Senior Member

12-19-2012

bumpity