Can a jungler be a carrier in S3? A pure farming profits test in S2 and S3.

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NynaeveaM

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyraknoss View Post
Farming without any kills will not cause you to be a carry regardless of your role.
Have you played Anivia? Or Karhtus (ok he can ult from his lane).


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Skaliton

Senior Member

12-19-2012

OP, you don't know how much I was hoping you meant a SC protoss carrier, for no reason other than it would b annoying


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LOLooser

Junior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NynaeveaM View Post
Have you played Anivia? Or Karhtus (ok he can ult from his lane).
some ADCs can also just farming to be a savior......


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Salex9

Senior Member

12-19-2012

To all the people saying "just get out of the jungle and gank for gold" yeah...try jungling some time and tell me how inconsistent it is when you have to ****ing relay on ganks for gold. Let's ignore the fact that successful ganks (forcing flash/exhaust, making them recall) only benefits the lanes and doesn't do NOTHING for the jungler. Have you ever played a game where every lane was warded? and even top/bot has every entrance warded making ganks worthless unless you had eve or a heavy CC jungler.


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Nekomata Waltzer

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Senior Member

12-19-2012

I'm guessing the gold rewards for jungle monsters don't get higher than S2 until fairly late in the game. If you keep farming for 10 more minutes in both clients, S3 might come out ahead.


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xstrifex

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekomata Waltzer View Post
I'm guessing the gold rewards for jungle monsters don't get higher than S2 until fairly late in the game. If you keep farming for 10 more minutes in both clients, S3 might come out ahead.
But that far into the game, what jungler is spending all his time killing jungle creeps? Most likely none because the focus of the game has shifted to forcing team fights and pushing objectives. And everyone on the team will be taking jungle camps for additional income at that point when lanes are pushed.


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LOLooser

Junior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salex9 View Post
To all the people saying "just get out of the jungle and gank for gold" yeah...try jungling some time and tell me how inconsistent it is when you have to ****ing relay on ganks for gold. Let's ignore the fact that successful ganks (forcing flash/exhaust, making them recall) only benefits the lanes and doesn't do NOTHING for the jungler. Have you ever played a game where every lane was warded? and even top/bot has every entrance warded making ganks worthless unless you had eve or a heavy CC jungler.
as we can see in the competition games...... most of the games ...junglers are no better than supporters.......


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Hassohappa

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Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salex9 View Post
To all the people saying "just get out of the jungle and gank for gold" yeah...try jungling some time and tell me how inconsistent it is when you have to ****ing relay on ganks for gold. Let's ignore the fact that successful ganks (forcing flash/exhaust, making them recall) only benefits the lanes and doesn't do NOTHING for the jungler. Have you ever played a game where every lane was warded? and even top/bot has every entrance warded making ganks worthless unless you had eve or a heavy CC jungler.
It's fine, just invest in some boots of mobility to make your ganks more effective. Also sink 400g into a five minute oracles so that you can clear their wards. While you're clearing the wards you should probably be warding too, so make sure to pick up wards as well. Then when you gank be sure not to ks, your lanes have to carry!


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djump

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Senior Recruiter

12-19-2012

I think this thread is very intersting and I think a lot of you are missing the point. This test has nothing to do with how a junger should really play in a game, and ganks are not and should not be a consideration in this test. The idea is this: RIOT says the s3 jungle has the potential for more gold gain from farming than s2. There are several factors to consider and I will go through them below:

To test this, just like OP did, you just need to farm for the same amount of time before and after and see how much gold you got. There are factors other than just the jungle creep gold such as GP10 and ambient gold, but they ARE properly taken into account by OP:

GP10's: In s2 there was HoG and potentially Philo Stone that were good on lots of junglers. Now there is only Philo Stone, so it's fair to build HoG on the s2 test and not on the s3 test. That represents an accurate comparison in possible income. Any GP10 other than HoG won't affect this test as they could be built on both with equal effect.

Ambient Gold: s3 has more ambient gold than s2. If anything, this would mean that s3 should have even more of an advantage because you get more gold automatically. the ambient gold went from 13 to 16 GP10. over 28 min of gold gain this is 504 extra gold you should get in s3 compared to s2.

Combine all effects: The only advantage s2 has over s3 is the HoG. If you say you can get a HoG at the 8 min mark (not sure how acurate that is, but my general point will be the same) then I calculate it gets you 660 gold by 30 min. Lets say we don't get this in the s2 test so you could subtact that much from the s2 total:

Then s2 would be 4658 and s3 would be 4848.

Now if we want to see just how much farm we are getting from the jungle, then subtract the difference in ambient gold from the s3 total(504g as shown above). This puts the just jungle farm total for each season at:

s2 4658
s3 4354

So in the end, season 3 jungle is apparently LESS lucrative to farm than season 2 jungle.

I think this is unfortunate and should be improved


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Hassohappa

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Senior Member

12-19-2012

I think that part of it is they reduced lane gold as well? 20 minutes farming a lane is somewhere around 5500g in season 3 depending on how well you last hit, how often you have to back, and how good the enemy is at keeping you from csing. Unless the total gold counted the 475 starting gold, then you're talking about 6000 vs 4850 which is a pretty marked difference (like around 20% less gold rather than 10% less).


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