Black Cleaver + Lack of Penetration Auras

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radicalratx

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
BFT will indeed build out of Codex + Kage's + Guise (3950 total) and gain 10 mana/5, 10% CDR (20% total), and 10 AP (80 total). Minus the better slot efficiency, this should be a hefty nerf to the item.

MP5 is useless for so many casters. In fact, I'd say most mana users have no use for MP5 either.


My suggestion (keeping the same gold cost):


Take off the MP5, make it 15% CDR, keep it 70AP, and add maybe 10-15% spellvamp.

Build it out of Kage, Guise, and Hextech Revolver.

Spellvamp options for casters is seriously lacking.


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AK47WOLF

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenebrae Corvus View Post
If BFT gets mana regeneration, then what options will mana-less champions like Katarina have to upgrade a Haunting Guise?
Who here thinks Kat will suffer if she has to build one useless stat?

I'll wait.


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Fabs457

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMKH View Post
We need Warmog's to be re-enabled as well as more tank items or items that make tanks more viable without breaking them.
I agree, considering the cost of Warmog's I think it will offset a bit of the glassy/mega-damage centric teams and give a bit more room for variation.


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Arance

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK47WOLF View Post
Who here thinks Kat will suffer if she has to build one useless stat?

I'll wait.
Because punishing Vlad to spite Kat is a great idea...


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CallMeTaste

Member

12-20-2012

My only gripe with with BFT. It's silly how many things proc it. BFT gives so much damage to DoTs. You can even go full tank with this item and still do plenty of dmg.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by radicalratx View Post
MP5 is useless for so many casters. In fact, I'd say most mana users have no use for MP5 either.
That's part of the point. BFT is OP, so this is partly a nerf.


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hollowtek

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Apparently no one's played against a leona with 140+ armor in the first few minutes of the game. Try winning that game with an AD carry, I challenge you.

By the time you can afford a last whisper the game is already over.

There's been countless people exploiting the lack of armor pen. in dominion already. It's NOT a good thing.

Stack armor? No problem! Let me bust out an Ali Ult while I'm at it.

Stack armor Pen? *trollface* Go ahead and build a ghostblade and black cleaver, then a last whisper. There goes all your money in dominion. Need more DPS and your champion isn't Tristana? Have fun with that. Wow, all that armor pen. and still take an hour to take down Leona/Ali. Don't waste your time.

FACT: You can build HP and armor faster in Dominion and be effective with it.
FACT: You have 3 actual options for Armor Pen. outside of masteries and runes.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Armour is more expensive now than it was in S2.

ADCs didn't have any real amount of ArPen to begin with, and the amount cut off is not THAT huge.

You're way blowing things out of proportion.

Sounds to me the ADC spent much of the game buying other cool items instead of the LW, but if people are stacking so much armour then rush that LW.

Also, Alistar's ult is supposed to make him hard to kill. LW isn't gonna help you much there. Resistance shields such as Leona are based on counter-play. You see her glow? Wait for her to stop glowing before you attack her. She pays for those resistances by not having other things in her kit and by skilling it.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I want to avoid giving it any more health.
Remake haunting Guise into a non health item, same as brutilizer. You could then create some more creative spellpen options for casters that do not end up giving them 250+hp per item. I would love to see a version of Malady that worked on spells for example.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

12-20-2012

BC: Why does The Black Cleaver still have HP? Why isn't the CDR and/or passive unique?

BFT: What if the CDR was removed from the item? I don't know that adding MP5 is the right solution, because the mana-less casters are already relatively weak picks. The 'nerf' doesn't impact Teemo, Singed, Brand, Cass, etc. - any of the really strong users other than it being a more expensive purchase. Meanwhile, removing CDR forces the caster to choose between the big stat stick or more casts over time. Sweeper, Frozen Heart, DFG, Ionian Boots, etc. are all strong CDR items. Removal of CDR allows the user to take the Ionian Boots and DFG to not miss out on the MPen. This used to be an interesting tradeoff, where a user could take Ionian boots early, and build HG to save themselves the MPen. Just an idea.

Does it do reduced damage on DoT and AoE effects?

Global CDR: Are we sure we want that? While APs are empowered by their abilities, I would argue bruisers are even more so, since their abilities scale with level more so than items. This is why you see such high cooldowns at low levels on Bruisers, and then scale down quickly. Global CDR of 10% would improve their early game power (where they definitely don't need any help) significantly, having the largest impact where their cooldowns are longest.

If you're going to do global CDR... can it scale through the game? For example, starting at 5% for the first 5 minutes, up to 15% at 15 minutes plus?

How do you make newer players cognizant of those effects, so they don't go stacking CDR and over-cap?