@Morello, can you explain the design philosophy used for nerfing champions?

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dogbiter

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
This is true - though Sejuani needs more than just jungle speed. She's less weak than she is unsatisfying and failing to deliver on being a good tank. If you take a look, Meddler is looking at broader changes for this.

Nautilus is a better example of an easy fix, though; "is it that hard to increase Naut's Rank 1 W values?" Probably not
so melee carries??? i know they aint as weak as GD makes it look as (just like how they do with anything that isnt OP), but they bring some grade of unsatisfaction when you encounter they aint as effective (talking about efficience to carry a game) as they should when fed and the enemy is fed too, or when not fed and becoming useless lategame anyways.

or simply because they are not jax


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Varidan

Senior Member

12-17-2012

While we're on the topic of Sejuani, I always felt her Q should do some sort of small knock-up/back, or even a stun. I mean, its a huge boar slamming into you. Thats gotta have its repercussions.


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Samflash3

Senior Member

12-17-2012

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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Hehe, I typically go to the rework place for this, but with Volibear, one skill getting some big changes could do the trick.
How abut him taking reduced CC and damage for x seconds when he does his Q? Flinging someone does not cancel the effect


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KevinDelMarr

Senior Member

12-17-2012

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Originally Posted by Yaddar View Post
wait, what? Heimerdingers E is slow enough to require a lot of skill to land, and you have to time it VERY RIGHT in order to get the stun going... given the fact that Heimer has no escape mechanism and there are lots of champs with blinks, dashes, jumps, etc, the E provides a lot of gameplay to the champ... they might be able to get to you, but if you are intellingent, you can disable them for your turrets to work.. you don't have turrets? too bad, you better start thinging of something to do after that disable is over (either the stun or the blind) - that's a lot of gameplay interacton between Q and E if you ask me. The grenade (and the blind/stun) is the one thing that allows Heimer to stay alive (and be useful in teamfights) while allowing his turrets to work... Q and E actually have synergy.
I think he's talking about his W, the micro-rockets, and having those prioritize Champion, which have the counterplay of "hope there are 3 minions closer to block it"


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Mindus Dew

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Recruiter

12-17-2012

To the people who are complaining about the recent nerfs going overboard, remember that this is still the preseason. This time period is meant to test and change frequently so that we can settle into a stable gamestate come the start of season 3. Things may not be 100% satisfactory to the populace now, but given Riot's track record, I'm sure a majority of us will be satisfied sooner rather than later.


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lolCatbus

Senior Member

12-17-2012

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Originally Posted by ArmySquirrel View Post
I think the idea is more that something that gets too high on the power scale needs to be brought down quickly for the sake of the game. Like Morello suggests, this doesn't lend well to accuracy, but I guess it gets the power level under control so the game can proceed with what is balanced. Something underpowered isn't going to wreck games like something significantly overpowered is going to.
Very true. It may or may not be intentional but it's always good if champions get nerfed hard (even temporarily for balance sake until they figure out a better fix) Even if it's not planned or intentional to badly nerf a champion then buff them in other ways, it's always good for that champions playerbase That's what I was getting at.


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Yaddar

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
My apologies - I meant the missiles. That grenade is an awesome skill.
oh... I see xD.. well yeah, I love the grenade (being Heimer kind of my first main and second most played champ.).. I hope the grenade utility survives the rework. its awesome and doesn't make Heimer OP, (while making him a really good niche pick vs melee heavy teams, those Talon, Kats, Dianas, Akalis with 4 more melee teammates)


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Ralik098

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Hehe, I typically go to the rework place for this, but with Volibear, one skill getting some big changes could do the trick.
=0

As an Irelia player, I'm not sure if I'm very happy about this or if this is terrifying. Is there any chance of Irelia getting a rework? I know you have wanted to for so long and have hinted at it possibly occurring in the past and at this point I wouldn't be entirely opposed to it if her core playstyle could be preserved. What happened to nerfing the base values on her W and giving it scaling as we talked about early on this year?

Sorry, if you feel like I'm pestering you about her, but she is my personal favorite, I just can't help myself. =P


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questir

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Morello im curious about Warwick. Is WW okay for you guys on his current state? because he was never a strong pick in S2 and looks the same for S3. I think a little buff like refund half mana on killing blow with Q would help him alot, especially for Lanewick which no one plays him top. I mean you did this for GP if im not wrong


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metalaug

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Even in this thread, we see people are worried about the details on two issues; Diana and Rengar. Maybe there's issues there (actually the live team are having a very heated balance discussion behind me as I post this!), and maybe it's "players are used to the old thing and it's weaker now." We're always open to being wrong, but frankly, more often-than-not we get it right or pretty close. This tells me that our philosophy is pretty good, and details will always be contentious - our job is to keep improving and get more accurate, as well as constantly evaluating our values on game design.
Tell the "balance guys" that the way they nerfed Diana was flat-out WRONG.

- Her orbs have a smaller detonation range than her autoattack. SHE NEEDS HER SHIELD as often as possible. If they do blow up, the area is so tiny it might as well be single-target,

- Her E range is so small, it invalidates its function as a "pull them back in" skill because she needs to be practically next to them for it to work anyway.

- She is no longer rewarded for skillfully predicting enemy movement and landing long-range Qs. The enemy simply needs to walk away or already be moving away. That is unacceptable. Champions that land their combo starter SHOULD BE REWARDED most of the time with their full combo. Seeing the enemy escape is INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING.

- I would gladly take tankiness nerfs over these dumbass range nerfs. You did not balance her. You made her UN-FUN to play. (and she was SO MUCH FUN before, this is depressing)