@Morello, can you explain the design philosophy used for nerfing champions?

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SourCereal

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaser676 View Post
Can you explain why you favor big nerfs the patch after a champ sees heavy tourney use instead of gradual changes?
Easy, the game has 100+ champions and 10 are being picked/ban


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SonsofaBastages

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Now, what I'm curious about is Irelia. In the past she has been consistently nerfed every patch. Incrementally, albeit, but consistently nerfed none the less. Granted, I understand how Irelia can be difficult to balance, as she was one of the first hardcore bruisers out there and her kit works so well with itself. However, I think some things need to be changed.

Irelia has multiple things going for her:
She's naturally tanky. (Necessary given her up-in-your-face nature.)
She has decent base damages on her abilities. (Not the best, but still viable even after patches of nerfs/buffs)
And her kit is really well thought out, allowing for a variety of different play options for her.

Where I think she falls short now:
Itemization. She requires way too many stats to be truly effective.
Health
Armor
Magic Resist
Attack damage
Ability Power
Attack speed.
She just NEEDS too many stats in order to utilize her kits to its full potential, and unfortunately I believe that the Season 3 item changes have been the most hurtful to Irelia. The lack of items that provide defensive, offensive and attack speed being among them. Also, these items are already much more expensive than they used to be, and with the changes to penetration, resistances don't provide much defensive benefit, unless you hyper stack. While I'm not much of a fan of TankRelia, as I believe that her job is more of a beefy anti-carry, the resistance nerfs and damage (AD/AP) buffs as well as pen changes really shut this build down. Stacking AP on Irelia just isn't viable as her AP ratios are terrible, and its the same thing with stacking AD. Granted her Q deals 100% of her total attack damage, it means that she will be too squishy to survive extended engagements.

Which brings me to my next point: Her ratios.

They seem.... kind of on the weak side, and especially since she NEEDS pretty much EVERY STAT in the game, I think we could use some incremental buffs in this department to make sure that what stats she does have is more effective. While some people might cry fowl at this, I believe that its a logical choice; either that or make a new set of items for more hybrid characters, or even buff the base damages on her stats as is. Most other bruisers in the game require only two things to be effective: HP and AD. Thats it. Riven, Rengar (Questionable now given the nerfs, but none the less), Wukong, etc, etc. Or just Straight AP. And since most AP items come with some sort of serious HP/Mana or CDR boost, covering those bases is pretty easy to do.

I think that this is legitimate, and I could really use some of your input on this Morello. Also, when is the graphical update for Anivia coming? And how about some skins for everyone's favorite Cryophoenix?


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Getehitonisu

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Junior Member

12-20-2012

Tristana Likely needs something, unsure though.

Just give her some AD RATIO like MF and she will be good.
I just dont remember how long i havent played her.
Like summoner LV15 I didnt sure.


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Horus2

Senior Member

12-20-2012

We still haven't gotten a Red comment on the Zyra situation, despite the poll with nearly 600 votes...

Nerfing the E really ruined her kit, especially for a mid player that is so reliant on that combo. I agree that support Zyra needed a nerf, it was just very poorly chosen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It depends on the situation and certainty - gradual changes are good for easing a character towards a more nerfed state, while drastic or faster nerfs are needed to solve more severe problems that are having a big impact. This is important because if a few champions are really out of line, they disallow use of any champions who compete with them for a slot on a team.

For Diana and Rengar, I'll be honest - I can't really comment in an informed manner here. The "appropriate force" approach is the overarching balance philosophy. A philosophy won't speak to accuracy (as that lies in execution details), but that's what we're trying to do at least.

Additionally, some of the Diana stuff might have been to fill in for the nerf we'd really like to do but is much tougher; slowing Q's missile speed. I think that would exemplify good Diana gameplay and create more counterplay.


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Afinis

Junior Member

12-20-2012

How about kennen?

In current mid meta, no one will take him out as he don't have good farming skill.
Use his e to farm:
1. too risky as this is his life saving skill
2. even a e+w cannot clear the wave efficiently

In the past, there are ad kennen, but since the base ad and the range nerfed, no one ever use it again (Isn't that pretty ironic when Riot keep saying that we should give more variety to champion but they took away what kennen can do) It seriously hurt ap kennen too

i guess we can give kennen some farming tools and make him viable under current meta.
Like when q hit an object, it will then trigger spark to the nearest three minions (not monster) (just like ionic spark but triggered when a q hit an object)

please give some love to kennen..


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Amarajah

Senior Member

12-20-2012

You guys nerf Diana this much, but you don't nerf Eve?

She has a 55.74% winrate on lolking, has been successfully used in tournaments, and the way she just is breaks the game for the enemy team. She will one combo you after obtaining deathfire's grasp, and you won't see it coming botlane for eg, unless you pink ward dragon and have the mid/jungle pink ward enemy wraiths. And even then she could just come through the opening between the two mid towers and stealthily appear in your lane to one shot you. How many pink wards must 1 opponent require? She will dive any turret because she has the burst and even the consistent damage through spammable, almost no cooldown spells to take you down afterward. She will be 500 MS when she kills you, and then it will refresh taking her out of tower range and probably escaping every single pursuer. Don't even forget about the free shield it gives her to aid her diving. She will repeatedly roam to wherever you are farming, undetected, and will be able to escape. It's like a nidalee with stealth. If you don't have all your jungle entrances and river PINK warded while you are farming absolutely anything, she will come and one shot you and walk away scot-free. How is permanent stealth even close to fair ? You can't even tell if she has actually left the lane or is just standing back in stealth without wards at every entrance.


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Xo Rcer oX

Junior Member

12-20-2012

nerfs sometimes are a bit to much, like what happened to diana, she was a really fun champion to play when she was realeased because she could carry now that is so much harder to do because of her nerfs


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FrozenChinchilla

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Senior Member

12-20-2012

So... Sion...
Are you leaning more towards making him into a mage? Or a melee fighter?


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Giulietta

Junior Member

12-20-2012

Nerf Soraka


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IS195f47c8187d233288f94

Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Sure!

Nasus Unsure - might have fatal flaws, might just be because overtuned metagolems.

Warwick Actually a pretty good jungler here - not too worried.

Poppy Blue Yordle needs rework badly

TryndamereA little on the synergy problem, but mostly this is about melee AD. Tryn's kit would e most likely to be good if melee AD were usable.

Karma Being reworked

Ashe Unsure. Might need a bit of love, but not a rework.

Jarvan IV Whoa, this guy's a beast right now. I think he has some design flaws, though.

Fiddlesticks Good jungler now for something different.

Veigar Good at being a burst mage, and has 2 ults (R and W). I don't think he's as bad as people make him out to be.

Tristana Likely needs something, unsure though.

Sion Needs rework.
I am very interested about what you have in mind for Poppy because I loved to play her in S1 and half of S2!
Greetings from EU btw :3