@Morello, can you explain the design philosophy used for nerfing champions?

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KlaxonRT

Member

12-18-2012

I know this is irrelevant but this guy named League°âLegends has started a thread and is giving away free skins and champs to anyone who asks him. He's acting as santa claus and all he wants in return is to play a few games with a riot employee or just contact with one in-game. If you could help him out that'd be great, thanks


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Eloquid

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Is this the right thread to ask about buffing philosophy too? For instance, I'm dying to know why Sivir's basic attack range couldn't be just a bit longer, at least as Teemo's. Why does he need to have all, and adc Sivir is basically ranged melee champion with huge mana costs for her skills. I guess somebody will pull 450ip argument, but I understand Riot's philosophy was always not to sell power (that's why you can't buy runes for rp). Or is it?


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TauManifesto

Senior Member

12-18-2012

What I don't get it why they were nerfed after pros began using them. This goes to show as long as pros are using certain champs, everyone will follow them blindly. NOBODY had a problem with DIana until IPL5 came along and people began to dominate with her. She was strong before but after she was balanced people stopped playing her. I think some champions that require a lot of skill to be played but are strong shouldn't be nerfed. I mean why play a hard to play champion if he/she/it is just as strong or as weak as an easy champ to play.


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Fongletto

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
But problems of OP champions would linger much longer and lessen variety more. I think (and I'm not sure, but my instinct here) is that I'd rather be wrong more often than let the game stagnate to actual 25 FOTM picks. We sit consistently at ~60 used in tournaments, which is pretty good. By getting better at detailed changes rapidly, we can increase this - I'd like to have our cake and eat it too here.
The fact it's a constant 60 shows more than anything how bad riot it is at balancing. That number should get higher with every year assuming you actually balanced anything from the year before.

Not to mention you release more champions every year so the number should just flat get higher by itself if you changed nothing..

60/90 decent
60/100 average
60/110 bad
60/120 worse.

Seems to me mathematically it'd be pretty simple. 60 played champs out of 120 either slightly nerf the 60 played, or slightly buff the 60 not played and hey presto, that number becomes 70. Rinse and repeat.


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spudsrus

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Well, hey, i suspect morello has stopped reading this thread quite a while ago, but if not.
Please explain why you are reworking heimer?

I honestly don't understand, he's so much fun to play and he can do extremely well, and he's my favorite mid. (Though has some counterpicks).

Why not go for some minor tweaks if you want to change him?


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Bestest Kha NA

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It depends on the situation and certainty - gradual changes are good for easing a character towards a more nerfed state, while drastic or faster nerfs are needed to solve more severe problems that are having a big impact. This is important because if a few champions are really out of line, they disallow use of any champions who compete with them for a slot on a team.

For Diana and Rengar, I'll be honest - I can't really comment in an informed manner here. The "appropriate force" approach is the overarching balance philosophy. A philosophy won't speak to accuracy (as that lies in execution details), but that's what we're trying to do at least.

Additionally, some of the Diana stuff might have been to fill in for the nerf we'd really like to do but is much tougher; slowing Q's missile speed. I think that would exemplify good Diana gameplay and create more counterplay.
Thanks for explaining all this Morello.


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Fight Money

Member

12-18-2012

riot pls


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Pie Kills

Member

12-18-2012

1. Create OP Champ
2. Create GOOD looking skin for champ
3. Release
4. Receive Money
5. Nerf so less people will play the champ and focused on other things, such as a upcoming champ
6. REPEAT


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Pie Kills

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Dues Pater

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloquid View Post
Is this the right thread to ask about buffing philosophy too? For instance, I'm dying to know why Sivir's basic attack range couldn't be just a bit longer, at least as Teemo's. Why does he need to have all, and adc Sivir is basically ranged melee champion with huge mana costs for her skills. I guess somebody will pull 450ip argument, but I understand Riot's philosophy was always not to sell power (that's why you can't buy runes for rp). Or is it?
teemo range is 500 the same as svir thank you for knowing your champions