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@Morello, can you explain the design philosophy used for nerfing champions?

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vvr

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Morello:
Not really - I mean it's not optimal to have any, but if that's it...wow! That's better than I thought.

Also, I just looked into Nautilus. I think he's actually good - we did let him jungle with a level 1 W - try it!

Some of those are endemic of other problems, and should not be strong for the right reasons - Heimer being one of them. Anything that requires a rework is a victim of their gameplay being fundamentally flawed. This is less balance and more core design.


since you are talking about fundamentaly flawed designs, i would actually like to see a response from you about urgot, his kit always seemed weird to me, the swap would actually be much more useful on a tank, what is he supposed to be? do you think he has enough gameplay? it feels like he only has 1 damage ability, his Q and it isnt reliable unless you mark your target with E, also dont you think he could really benefit from reworking the current ulti like making it synergize with his E, like requiring the target to be marked, but making it instant swap with the stun after the swap?

also, most of the time his missles locking on minions is unwanted, can you make it so it only locks on champions and maybe important monsters?


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greed18

Junior Member

12-17-2012

Can you guys fix a Zyra bug? When you land your Q into your seed the plants don't attack, they just stare at the enemy champion (or minions). It has happened several times, I don't know if it was part of her nerf or something.. Also, why did you nerfed her Speed on her E, now you can't catch anything. :c


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MeIancholy

Member

12-17-2012

Morello I hate how limiting the jungling role feels and I hate that invades are more dangerous than ever. Hatchet is a joke of an item.

Jungling used to be enjoyable. Now its linear and unnecessarily difficult.


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slum6itch

Senior Member

12-17-2012

I don't think tiny, incremental nerfs were what needed to happen to Diana. You're talking about having her totally dominate mid lane for weeks, maybe months if we keep getting delayed patches like we have been. Yeah, she's pretty much been sacrificed, but it's for the greater good. Did you really want another season of Katarina* vs Diana in every single game?

*Kat still needs nerfed


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NEXMaRin

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Morello:
Not really - I mean it's not optimal to have any, but if that's it...wow! That's better than I thought.

Also, I just looked into Nautilus. I think he's actually good - we did let him jungle with a level 1 W - try it!

Some of those are endemic of other problems, and should not be strong for the right reasons - Heimer being one of them. Anything that requires a rework is a victim of their gameplay being fundamentally flawed. This is less balance and more core design.

I like chocolate milk.
What is your response Morello?


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Grads

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Morello:
It's also important to realize that it's not our goal (nor statistically possible!) to have every champion in the top tier picks list. We just want options to be viable, and especially have them be situational or strategy-based.


Diana is an option and she is not viable currently. There were two very large overnerfs.

1) One of her damage abilities is now terrible. Pale cascade cannot detonate reliably anymore.

2) If Lunar Rush was the target of a nerf, I was expecting a more creative solution than to remove the chase aspect of it. Something along the lines of
- Range Reduced from 900 to 800
- In addition to current effects, Lunar Rush now gains 100 range on targets affected by Moonlight (900 range and refreshes CD)

This effect would give Diana's "Lunar Rush" the same chase element with a higher risk-reward of landing Crescent Slash


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Moash

Recruiter

12-17-2012

Quote:
Morello:
Not really - I mean it's not optimal to have any, but if that's it...wow! That's better than I thought.

Also, I just looked into Nautilus. I think he's actually good - we did let him jungle with a level 1 W - try it!

Some of those are endemic of other problems, and should not be strong for the right reasons - Heimer being one of them. Anything that requires a rework is a victim of their gameplay being fundamentally flawed. This is less balance and more core design.


Barring, of course, that it was by no means an exhaustive list, perhaps you could go into more detail about why a champ like Ezreal is allowed to stay at the peak of viability (maybe even to the exclusion of others) while those other champs mentioned are not?


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That Person

Senior Member

12-17-2012

hey morello i know diana was too strong, not denying that but the only thing i ask you too take a look it is the range of her ult and her shield. think you can look at the numbers of her shield because i can stand there AA people and my shield won't detonate. Her ult range change was very jaring, i know this might sound weird but could you nerf her Q range to match if you are unwilling to buff her R range that way we have a clear standard?


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TerminatusOmega

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Moash:
Barring, of course, that it was by no means an exhaustive list, perhaps you could go into more detail about why a champ like Ezreal is allowed to stay at the peak of viability (maybe even to the exclusion of others) while those other champs mentioned are not?



I've always wondered why they left Ezreal like that too... Riot always says they want diversity but it seems as if the same old champs get played often while others get forgotten.

I guess its also the community to blame as well....


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Nekrocow

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Morello:
I think, though, we disagree on what viable is. Is Naut unviable? Really? Or is he just not as good as other OP picks? Are teams not utilizing tanks in the jungle now?

It think that viable = Good overall or niche pick. Nautilus is an awesome champ but his eternal CDs makes other champs safer and/or more viable choices. I think every champ should be viable at certain situations (against certain team comps, in order to attain certain objectives, etc.) Right now, most champs aren't competitive picks at all, I don't think that's ok, but I hope this will change at some point in the future.

(All this is just my point of view, nothing else)

Quote:
Morello:
Maybe he is weak, sure - but I think there are sleeper hits (and we see this quite a bit) and a certain amount of parroting that makes people assume that a champion is weak without it being weak. A lot of what the team does is thinking about this stuff.

I have to say I agree with that. GD and Champion Feedback are the QQ corners lol, non-ranked players keep qqing instead of learning to play (I used to post QQ threads too, then realized it was a bad player attitude and a waste of time)