@Morello, can you explain the design philosophy used for nerfing champions?

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Discpled

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Not really - I mean it's not optimal to have any, but if that's it...wow! That's better than I thought.

Also, I just looked into Nautilus. I think he's actually good - we did let him jungle with a level 1 W - try it!

Some of those are endemic of other problems, and should not be strong for the right reasons - Heimer being one of them. Anything that requires a rework is a victim of their gameplay being fundamentally flawed. This is less balance and more core design.
I actually agree here... Naut with Machete feels good and the added 10% bonus damage goes along way.. and I want to add I love the new Spirit Jungle Items... Especially Lizard Elder, love that thing on Hecarim!


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And it was K

Member

12-17-2012

I love it when you post a lot like this, Morello. <3 I have more fun reading what you have to say than playing the game. Not that I don't have fun playing; I wub this game.


On another note, I think Naut is actually fine. I've been playing him a bit over the past few days, and he feels pretty strong to me...


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CakeandBacon

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alekt View Post
Yeah Katarina feels overwhelming, 1 kill and she's already unstoppable. Even though you had killed her 4 times already.
Well, to be fair the hardcore snowballing that she does now is nothing new. She's always been able to roam and snowball really really well.

The thing is, now she can farm really well too. By leveling the same skills she uses for roaming. That's what I think the problem is. She doesn't fall behind in creeps nearly as hard for roaming, because she clears waves really well.


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Kchaosrei

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Senior Member

12-17-2012

sry Morello

I did jungle naut and tried his w buff out. Its meh at best and doesn't solve the real issue.

I know riot keeps saying that they wanted to tone down the aoe jungle. But honestly they killed it. In most average games a tank jungler gets picked on all game by there jungle counter part on the other team.


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Snaplasher

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Morello soaking BS like a champ. How many warmogs are you rocking right now?


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Dues Pater

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Senior Member

12-17-2012

Tryndamere and warwick need some love warwick is fast in the new jungle but his ganks are still a lack luster and he has a problem vsing bursty champions. As for tryndamere he doesnt fit in the current meta and he is a bit out dated on some of his skills same goes for warwick.


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Dues Pater

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Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kchaosrei View Post
sry Morello

I did jungle naut and tried his w buff out. Its meh at best and doesn't solve the real issue.

I know riot keeps saying that they wanted to tone down the aoe jungle. But honestly they killed it. In most average games a tank jungler gets picked on all game by there jungle counter part on the other team.
your worst nightmare as jungle naut is for you to get countered jungled(olaf,shy and shaco). Its not really worth it knowing your squishy early and so easily counter jungled.


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Ginga

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Senior Member

12-17-2012

@Morello: In THIS thread here you promised us that you'll talk about Zyra some more after the preseason starts.


The TC, and EVERYONE plead for you to think before nerfing Support Zyra. We plead to you to nerf Support Zyra without affecting AP mid Zyra.

And now the patch came, and while you nerfed Support Zyra who was a bit OP, you screwed over AP mid Zyra players too, exactly the opposite of what everyone wanted.


So here is my request. Please revert your nerfs. And then in the next patch ONLY nerf Support Zyra without unfairly nerfing AP mid Zyra.



I want to ask. Do you know how it feels to only just be starting to get good at a champion, only to find her nerfed in multiple areas just because she was a bit too good at a completely different role that you NEVER play? To the Support players, this was a necessary toning down of her capabilities. To AP mid players, that's just a sucker punch without an explanation.


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ExaltedVanguard

Senior Member

12-17-2012

As long as we're on the topic of sweeping balance changes, I'd like you to address a blatant issue with the new jungle.

You said you want to promote single-target damage in the jungle, but the smaller jungle mobs are actually stronger than they were before, which has increased the need for AoE.

Wraiths. Level 1 Shyvana with flat AD marks/quints. 9/21/0 masteries. Cloth start.
In season 2, your burnout combined with bladed armor would kill the small wraiths.
In season 3, they will survive and require one more hit each.

While it's true that they do deal less damage, the increase in health is a much greater nerf to single-target jungling than the moving of damage. Time is money. Compared to an AoE jungler like Shyvana, you have to spend more time killing them, which means a longer clear time. That means later ganks, less lane presence (compared to your counterpart), and more opportunities for a faster (AoE) jungler to come bully you around.

I understand jungle presence was "nerfed" so to speak, but I'm only comparing a single target jungler to a AoE jungler, not S2 to S3 jungle difficulty overall. A single-target jungler falls even further behind their competition in S3 they did in S2.


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ALLIIAN

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Senior Member

12-17-2012

Urgot!