@Morello, can you explain the design philosophy used for nerfing champions?

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chaser676

Senior Member

12-17-2012

I think many of us can agree that when a champion needs significant nerfs, the design team goes a tad overboard with the nerf bat. Im not saying Diana or Rengar are balanced or UP now, but their winrates have drastically dropped. Can you explain why you favor big nerfs the patch after a champ sees heavy tourney use instead of gradual changes?


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chaser676

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Forums move fast


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Morello

Lead Designer

12-17-2012
1 of 32 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaser676 View Post
I think many of us can agree that when a champion needs significant nerfs, the design team goes a tad overboard with the nerf bat. Im not saying Diana or Rengar are balanced or UP now, but their winrates have drastically dropped. Can you explain why you favor big nerfs the patch after a champ sees heavy tourney use instead of gradual changes?
It depends on the situation and certainty - gradual changes are good for easing a character towards a more nerfed state, while drastic or faster nerfs are needed to solve more severe problems that are having a big impact. This is important because if a few champions are really out of line, they disallow use of any champions who compete with them for a slot on a team.

For Diana and Rengar, I'll be honest - I can't really comment in an informed manner here. The "appropriate force" approach is the overarching balance philosophy. A philosophy won't speak to accuracy (as that lies in execution details), but that's what we're trying to do at least.

Additionally, some of the Diana stuff might have been to fill in for the nerf we'd really like to do but is much tougher; slowing Q's missile speed. I think that would exemplify good Diana gameplay and create more counterplay.


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Sulale

Senior Member

12-17-2012

In my opinion I think sometimes the department that does the nerfs goes overboard sometimes.


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chaser676

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It depends on the situation and certainty - gradual changes are good for easing a character towards a more nerfed state, while drastic or faster nerfs are needed to solve more severe problems that are having a big impact. This is important because if a few champions are really out of line, they disallow use of any champions who compete with them for a slot on a team.

For Diana and Rengar, I'll be honest - I can't really comment in an informed manner here. The "appropriate force" approach is the overarching balance philosophy. A philosophy won't speak to accuracy (as that lies in execution details), but that's what we're trying to do at least.
Fair enough. Thanks for the quick response


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Did that happen

Senior Member

12-17-2012

man rengar was god mode before the nerf. I agree with that one for sure. I would start long sword with 3 hp pots and pretty much 2 shot 2 people in bot lane every game over and over due to is insane amount of damage he puts outs. Plus if they come into fight me in the bush they are 100% screwed now. I can still do it for the most part he just lots a little bit of power he still just straight up a a beast in the lane. He not that great team fighter tho.


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Tarinis

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It depends on the situation and certainty - gradual changes are good for easing a character towards a more nerfed state, while drastic or faster nerfs are needed to solve more severe problems that are having a big impact. This is important because if a few champions are really out of line, they disallow use of any champions who compete with them for a slot on a team.

For Diana and Rengar, I'll be honest - I can't really comment in an informed manner here. The "appropriate force" approach is the overarching balance philosophy. A philosophy won't speak to accuracy (as that lies in execution details), but that's what we're trying to do at least.

Additionally, some of the Diana stuff might have been to fill in for the nerf we'd really like to do but is much tougher; slowing Q's missile speed. I think that would exemplify good Diana gameplay and create more counterplay.
Morello, please give us an update on Heimerdinger. He is my favorite hero


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zerodahero

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It depends on the situation and certainty - gradual changes are good for easing a character towards a more nerfed state, while drastic or faster nerfs are needed to solve more severe problems that are having a big impact. This is important because if a few champions are really out of line, they disallow use of any champions who compete with them for a slot on a team.

For Diana and Rengar, I'll be honest - I can't really comment in an informed manner here. The "appropriate force" approach is the overarching balance philosophy. A philosophy won't speak to accuracy (as that lies in execution details), but that's what we're trying to do at least.

Additionally, some of the Diana stuff might have been to fill in for the nerf we'd really like to do but is much tougher; slowing Q's missile speed. I think that would exemplify good Diana gameplay and create more counterplay.
Morello what about naut? He went from being used just as much as mundo/skarner/mao then you guys nerfed him and he was never heard from again?


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ìlliad

Senior Member

12-17-2012

DIana, Black Cleaver, Rengar, Shaco, global ults.

Riots strategy is that sweeping nerfs are better than tweaks. Nerf it into the ground, then slowly bring it back up with minor tweaks (I assume Volibear will get tiny buffs a little at a time because of how strong he was pre-megasupernerfville).

People that love champions or play them enough will be able to do well regardless of how much their kit is hurt. I have seen Karmas,Trundles, and heimerdingers DOMINATE, but it always makes me think - what if they were playing Karthas or Ezreal instead of the worse champ.


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DONGLORD420

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Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by žlliad View Post
DIana, Black Cleaver, Rengar, Shaco, global ults.

Riots strategy is that sweeping nerfs are better than tweaks. Nerf it into the ground, then slowly bring it back up with minor tweaks (I assume Volibear will get tiny buffs a little at a time because of how strong he was pre-megasupernerfville).

People that love champions or play them enough will be able to do well regardless of how much their kit is hurt. I have seen Karmas,Trundles, and heimerdingers DOMINATE, but it always makes me think - what if they were playing Karthas or Ezreal instead of the worse champ.
for awhile they seemed to be using small nerfs over several patches until this one where they just completely nuked 2 heroes from orbit.