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Champion Concept 8: Doran, the Exalted Blacksmith

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Conversion Gel

Senior Member

12-22-2012

And it shouldnt be 10% off, it should be 2%-10%, increasing over levels


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Draginath

Senior Member

12-23-2012

bump


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Zarkof

Senior Member

12-26-2012

So Doran is somehow relieved of whatever bonk on the head he took that made him a lot... simpler?


Passive: Not sure how adjusting gold will affect the balance of this champion. You shouldn't ever focus on changing items as this is just a waste regardless. You usually build your champ around the enemy and they don't generally swap items, so just build to counter whatever they're doing. This is probably just going to be used for snowballing with reduced gold costs, getting rewarded for doing less.

If you look at TF's passive, globally this grants his team 2 gold per cs/tower/champion kill You rarely see an ADC or Top Laner get over 150 minions in a game, amounting to 300g per farmer (about enough for half of an item) and since supports don't last hit, overall giving your team basically a free dragon kill by the end of the game. Trying to use this to balance one champion is really tough and I don't see it happening.


Q what's the difference between weave and roll other than the animation? and which direction is it, left or right 90 degrees? Or did you mean 180 degrees (half circle)? Fancy graphics aside, it's not offering much in mobility and the damage is really high for a low cooldown skill. Look at Jax's Empower for balance and adjust your ratios.


W: Neat and versatile, but the 70% reduced damage on shield seems kinda much and the bonuses seem really high. The health is almost as much as Nasus/Renekton/Lulu's ultimates and the armor/mr is worth two 2000 gold items, and this altogether seems a bit much. I'd give the other skills a bit more bonus, nerf this a ton, but remove the reduced damage. Or make it reduce his AD/AP but add damage based on his armor/mr or something since he does have a shield now.

Also, gaining health means you are healed that much, so toggling the shield aspect on and off means you have a 6 sec 200 heal at rank 1...

Not sure on the glaive. Is it like Kayle's E? That has a duration, cooldown, and mana cost, remember. Right now the range would put him at ADC range with this weapon active without giving him a new skillset corresponding to the new range, and that can be hard to balance around. If you look at Kayle, her skillset already all ranged.

Alternatively, you could use TF's Pick a Card mechanic to pick the weapon.


E: The only thing I don't like is how you don't give him any control in his shield stance. You give it to his Lance, which is more for doing AoE damage it seems (from the weapon effect). A 3 second spell shield is pretty overpowered, Sivir's is 22sec-10sec and Noct's is 20sec-12sec. Not sure what to say about glaive.


R: So this technically grants you 4 new abilities for 5 seconds then reverts you back to your original set? clever. The cooldown is way too low for some of the damage you give it.
fire damage is too high, effectively granting 400 damage if your burn has 100% uptime and you hit with the initial burst at rank one.
Water is alright...
Earth: you forget to mention the knockup duration. 10 sec AoE 55% slow is really, really OP.
Air: Mobility and knockback? only seems good for escaping.


Now I'm just gonna ramble on here... probably won't make sense

Eh I like where you're going with this "versatility" idea but again, there's always going to be someone better at whatever role he plays. Right now he's pretty much stuck as a bruiser/fighter without as much of the control or mobility.

IMO trying to give a champ 3 different skillsets just doesn't work. Most of the dual kit champions are limited to 1 1/2 roles. Nidalee is damage with half support, Jayce is bruiser with half ranged, and Elise is just weird caster with half ap fighter. With your different weapons, you're trying to give him additional skills with unique effects instead of a unique standalone skill with additional effects based on weapon, and then your ultimate is 4 different spells in one.

Not sure if he'd be viable outside of a damage dealing role... he doesn't really fit the ADC role in the same way that Jayce isn't a true ADC. His shield stance doesn't have any control outside of earth on his ultimate, and tanks generally bring control. He isn't really built to do anything outside of a versatile fighter with no mobility and limited control, sort of like Udyr without a speed boost from bear stance.

So this champion is pretty much Udyr...

...with a glaive?


Index of my work (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2915488)


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Dzanio

Senior Member

12-26-2012

Quote:
If you look at TF's passive, globally this grants his team 2 gold per cs/tower/champion kill You rarely see an ADC or Top Laner get over 150 minions in a game, amounting to 300g per farmer (about enough for half of an item) and since supports don't last hit, overall giving your team basically a free dragon kill by the end of the game. Trying to use this to balance one champion is really tough and I don't see it happening.


More like 250-300 cs/game for a 500-600 bonus/person ~1500-1700 team gold. (Dragon = 975, Nashor = 1525). More comparable to a free baron.


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Draginath

Senior Member

12-27-2012

Quote:
Zarkof:
So Doran is somehow relieved of whatever bonk on the head he took that made him a lot... simpler?


Passive: Not sure how adjusting gold will affect the balance of this champion. You shouldn't ever focus on changing items as this is just a waste regardless. You usually build your champ around the enemy and they don't generally swap items, so just build to counter whatever they're doing. This is probably just going to be used for snowballing with reduced gold costs, getting rewarded for doing less.

If you look at TF's passive, globally this grants his team 2 gold per cs/tower/champion kill You rarely see an ADC or Top Laner get over 150 minions in a game, amounting to 300g per farmer (about enough for half of an item) and since supports don't last hit, overall giving your team basically a free dragon kill by the end of the game. Trying to use this to balance one champion is really tough and I don't see it happening.


Q what's the difference between weave and roll other than the animation? and which direction is it, left or right 90 degrees? Or did you mean 180 degrees (half circle)? Fancy graphics aside, it's not offering much in mobility and the damage is really high for a low cooldown skill. Look at Jax's Empower for balance and adjust your ratios.


W: Neat and versatile, but the 70% reduced damage on shield seems kinda much and the bonuses seem really high. The health is almost as much as Nasus/Renekton/Lulu's ultimates and the armor/mr is worth two 2000 gold items, and this altogether seems a bit much. I'd give the other skills a bit more bonus, nerf this a ton, but remove the reduced damage. Or make it reduce his AD/AP but add damage based on his armor/mr or something since he does have a shield now.

Also, gaining health means you are healed that much, so toggling the shield aspect on and off means you have a 6 sec 200 heal at rank 1...

Not sure on the glaive. Is it like Kayle's E? That has a duration, cooldown, and mana cost, remember. Right now the range would put him at ADC range with this weapon active without giving him a new skillset corresponding to the new range, and that can be hard to balance around. If you look at Kayle, her skillset already all ranged.

Alternatively, you could use TF's Pick a Card mechanic to pick the weapon.


E: The only thing I don't like is how you don't give him any control in his shield stance. You give it to his Lance, which is more for doing AoE damage it seems (from the weapon effect). A 3 second spell shield is pretty overpowered, Sivir's is 22sec-10sec and Noct's is 20sec-12sec. Not sure what to say about glaive.


R: So this technically grants you 4 new abilities for 5 seconds then reverts you back to your original set? clever. The cooldown is way too low for some of the damage you give it.
fire damage is too high, effectively granting 400 damage if your burn has 100% uptime and you hit with the initial burst at rank one.
Water is alright...
Earth: you forget to mention the knockup duration. 10 sec AoE 55% slow is really, really OP.
Air: Mobility and knockback? only seems good for escaping.


Now I'm just gonna ramble on here... probably won't make sense

Eh I like where you're going with this "versatility" idea but again, there's always going to be someone better at whatever role he plays. Right now he's pretty much stuck as a bruiser/fighter without as much of the control or mobility.

IMO trying to give a champ 3 different skillsets just doesn't work. Most of the dual kit champions are limited to 1 1/2 roles. Nidalee is damage with half support, Jayce is bruiser with half ranged, and Elise is just weird caster with half ap fighter. With your different weapons, you're trying to give him additional skills with unique effects instead of a unique standalone skill with additional effects based on weapon, and then your ultimate is 4 different spells in one.

Not sure if he'd be viable outside of a damage dealing role... he doesn't really fit the ADC role in the same way that Jayce isn't a true ADC. His shield stance doesn't have any control outside of earth on his ultimate, and tanks generally bring control. He isn't really built to do anything outside of a versatile fighter with no mobility and limited control, sort of like Udyr without a speed boost from bear stance.

So this champion is pretty much Udyr...

...with a glaive?


Index of my work (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2915488)


Thanks for the critique. Remember all numbers are more or less arbitrary. Now to address your points:

Passive: I touched on this in a previous post. It's really meant to be utilized by those who want to make use of it. It gives Doran much better gold coverage which makes it very hard to build against him as he can build to counter you with greater ease. If he sees his enemies focusing on certain stats (armor, MR, glass cannon), Doran can respond much easier because the value of his gold is substantially higher. And in cases when he's getting fed, it will help him snowball even quicker.

Q: The weave and roll are the exact same thing and is designed for animation purposes. It wouldn't be possible to weave 90 degrees around a target at range because weaving is one swift shuffling of the feet. So the roll accomplishes this while Glaive is equipped. I'm leaning towards just keeping the weave as moving 90 degrees to the right.

To better clarify the animation. If Doran attacks from the front, the second strike will be from the target's left side. It's not supposed to be huge mobility, just adds a little flow to his fighting style.

W: The shield is meant to have a huge damage reduction. Doran should be doing next to no damage while his shield is up. In exchange, he's extremely difficult to kill. I'm going to adjust the HP boost though.

E: Again, Doran is trading damage for defense in every sense of the word. Ardent Defense is meant to be extremely powerful. I'm probably going to fix Fix the CD and have the duration increase with level.

R: Not sure if you understood how it works. It's exactly the same as Arsenal. Activate and choose an element and the ability goes on CD. The CD is getting slightly increased in the next draft.

Now onto your rambling,

Doran's not meant to be the best at whatever role the player chooses him for. But unlike that so-called "best" for the role, Doran can change roles mid game with great ease. Need more tankiness? Doran can stick to using his shield which is powerful even without defensive items. Need more poke? Doran can use his Glaive with Q and E to bring some to the team. Need to push? Bust out the Lance and clear waves with ease. This is all before taking his Ultimate into account or the fact that his gold is worth more than any other champ.

So while he may not be the most optimal in any given role, he possesses the ability to swap roles at almost the drop of a hat. And, for a player like me, that brings its own power.

On a lore note: I'm still working on it but basically him regaining his prowess has to do with the rings that he uses for combat. He's given up using physical weapons all together. The lore also shows that these rings changed Doran's attitude, making him substantially more arrogant and cocky than the humble blacksmith we know.


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Draginath

Senior Member

01-01-2013

bump


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3mptylord

Senior Member

01-01-2013

I think Arsenal: Shield's damage reduction is too severe. While the defensive bonuses are huge - they do not justify such a damage reduction. He is suppose to be versatile - but who is going to focus a tank that deals no damage, and has no disruption or initiation (given his only CC is in duelist mode - aka Lance)? With the Shield active he would literally become a non-entity.

The duration of the Eternal Forge effects are too long for a 20 second cooldown - or, at least, having a 10 second 55% slow on a 20 second cooldown sounds absurd. The other elements don't sound so bad. ^_^


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zdillon

Member

01-01-2013

idk if this needs a bump but ever thing has been said already but i like it

Thanks

-zdillon


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Draginath

Senior Member

01-01-2013

Quote:
3mptylord:
I think Arsenal: Shield's damage reduction is too severe. While the defensive bonuses are huge - they do not justify such a damage reduction. He is suppose to be versatile - but who is going to focus a tank that deals no damage, and has no disruption or initiation (given his only CC is in duelist mode - aka Lance)? With the Shield active he would literally become a non-entity.

The duration of the Eternal Forge effects are too long for a 20 second cooldown - or, at least, having a 10 second 55% slow on a 20 second cooldown sounds absurd. The other elements don't sound so bad. ^_^


Well, he does initiate in the form of Wind and CC in the form of both Earth and Wind while Shield is equipped. What you assumed is that Doran is going to sit in Shield form for an extended period of time and I would say that would be terrible play. Yes, he's not going to be a damage threat while shield is active, but there's nothing stopping him from swapping to lance or glaive once you've let him walk past your line. The shield is designed to make him extremely hard to kill when you are focusing him. However, Arsenal has a very short CD and he can swap weapons at will since he is manaless.

There will be builds that focus on a certain weapon, but to completely neglect the others is just poor play. If you choose a tank build for Doran, he's already building tank items so he doesn't necessarily need to sit in shield form. On the flip side, it would be a bit broken for him to be able to build full damage and keep most of that damage while in Shield form. That's why the damage reduction is so severe. Even with a "glass cannon" build, Doran is in never in any real danger of being blown up thanks to shield and the fact that he doesn't use mana.

That's all before taking into account his gold availability and the fact that he builds items quickly and can swap them out with greater ease.

On a side note, in the next draft, Eternal Forge's cooldown is being increased to around 35 seconds.


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Draginath

Senior Member

01-03-2013

bump