Looking for Sejuani Feedback

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mardukan

Junior Member

12-15-2012

I've Sejuani quite a bit for about half a year (Haven't played her since the recent patch, so I'm not sure if any mastery or jungle changes helped/hurt her).

Main things I have noticed that make her hard to play:

1. Maybe not so much squishy, but no damage, poke, and kind of slow for a melee champion. This makes her almost unplayable in lane, and an easy kill for the people one might be laning against.

2. The cooldown on her Q is too high, especially early on. The best way to do damage and initiate as Sejuani is with her Q. Without this, she does very mediocre damage.

Her early game is very weak because of these things, and makes it hard for her to stack well into late game. I want to put more detail into these three points right now.

1.
Her tankiness early on feels non-existent. Being a tanky champion-with almost no damage-makes this very hard on her when trying to lane. I tried to play Sejuani as a solo-top lane champion a few times. The key seemed to be to sit back and try to farm as best you could. A ranged champion, such as Teemo, can poke the hell out of Sejuani with almost no danger. Even using her gap closer Q, it is very hard to pull off doing practically no damage against anyone. If you do go in to poke, you either go all in or probably take massive damage trying to get out. Sejuani is practically useless on her own in this respect. I always had to rely on very early gank and constant pressure from the jungle to pull a top lane match-up off.

As a bottom support, she doesn't have much in terms of set-ups other than the slow from E. I could see how someone could pull it off, but there are many more better options for a support bottom and a solo top lane. Being easy to kill doesn't help either.

I have also tried Sejuani in the mid lane. At a low level, I went against a Veigar who proclaimed at the beginning of the match "Sejuani mid? Free farm " I was able to kill him in mid lane several times, and lead the team to victory. Near the end of the game he typed in all chat how surprised and confused he was. There's a caveat to this story, you may have noticed, the only way it really works is through the ignorance of the other player. But, the matter of how squishy she is isn't really a problem here, and makes this lane an okay choice for her. There were a couple of other times I managed to make it work by playing carefully and waiting for late game where I could shine as an AOE AP champion with some tankiness later on.

This leads to her only really good position in the current meta: as a jungler. Her squishyness is not much of a problem here with a good leash and supportive teammates. She does not have much of a ganking presence until level 6, when she learns her ult (a very good ult if you can land it, and if you don't get it exactly, it still is very good). But other than that, she can clear the jungle well enough without dying and can support lanes with okay ganks until level 6. The only problem is her clear speed is on the slow side, raising the time to get to level 6. You can make up for this by using her Q to navigate the jungle better, but the cooldown on the ability is very very high for how useful it is in Sejuani's kit

.Sejuani's base stats look fine on first inspection. Notably her health is 450, armor 20.5, magic resistance 30, and her movement speed 340, which is not that slow, but certainly not the fastest. As a melee champion she suffers due to her speed more than any of her base stats. Sure, there are many melee tanks that have the same speed or even less. However, she has no real ranged attacks. E requires frost, so you have to be right there in the other champion's face at first. Q puts you in there, and if you have E, you can slow the champion a good deal to get out. It works in theory, but you're more likely to get caught out in the open with no more abilities and having done barely any damage.

Sejuani is easy! All you have to do is use her Q, then W and finish the enemy off with E, especially if they try to run away. And if the champion hasn't died yet, you're probably going to die. That Q won't come back off of cooldown for at least ten more seconds (19 seconds on the first rank!), so that combo isn't going to be able to be used again. In a team fight, this is probably okay. But, if you are trying to gank someone and then don't kill them by the end of the combo, you're pretty much useless. W lasts twice as long as frost anyway, so the bonus damage won't be helping you anymore. If you try to rank up Q instead of W to lower the cooldown, you're losing damage. It feels as if her kit revolves around using Q to initiate and once that down, you're useless.

You might do some damage to another champion, and if it's late in the game you might survive to the point where the other champion decides to leave. They might leave because your health isn't going down as fast as they would like, because you're kind of tanky at this point, or they might be kind of low on health. Either way, if they comitted they probably would have killed you, definitely if your ult was down (her ult is the only reason she is even remotely still playable). However the only way that champion will probably die is if you can slow it down so much so that your teammates can come in and kill the champion for you, then you steal the kill anyway (I like to think Sejuani is, rather than the Queen of Freljord, the Queen of Kill Stealing).


What I propose is (some of these maybe not all):

-Increase the time on the frost debuff. Up from 3 seconds to either 5 or 6 seconds.
-Increase the AP scaling on some of her abilities and maybe the the HP for W
-Put Q on flat 10 second cooldown for all ranks, or lower the cooldown to 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 (something like that)
-Increase her base movement speed a bit

If you did these things, it would definitely improve her quality of life and make her less of a headache to play, but there's probably some other things you could do to make her truly balanced.


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Spectram6

Junior Member

12-15-2012

I like Sejuani's innate tankyness and the fact that she can keep a team slowed for days. However, I think her kit focuses a little too much on CC. I think she just does not deal enough damage to contribute to a team, and her CC goes on for more than long enough. She can keep a person slowed 3 minutes or more long after a team fight. However, all she has is soft CC except her ult for 1-2 seconds. It doesn't quite fit with AoE comps, and that's the only comp I can see her currently fitting with.
TL;DR too much focus on soft CC. bring in more hard CC or more damage.


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musuchan

Junior Member

12-15-2012

i played with sej over 150 time in ranked.
and i have no complain.
whatever she have tank tag.
i want a bit tank skill for her.
for example; when used E, sejuani put debuff of ASdown for defend team,
when used Q, she knock back a bit enemy champion for peer.
used W, she get shield or heal for tank.


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Tbcrow

Junior Member

12-15-2012

I've always felt Sej was one or two minor tweaks from very viable, especially in season 3 with the new jungle.

Note; Her kit is beautiful, top to bottom. Iceborn Gauntlet accents Sej extremely well, and makes a full remake not necessary.

1 - I really feel that Northern Winds should apply her frost, like her charge and her auto attacks. Northern Winds benefits her most in jungle, and this would add an extreme amount of usefulness to Permafrost, without making her broken. This would also increase her 2nd clear time immensely, and help her stay abreast of junglers now.

2 - Higher starting health or better health scaling. She is really painfully squishy clear #1, and suffers immensely due to the "What do I buy syndrome". With higher health scaling, Sej players can have clear routes between building lockdown AP tanky, or Northern Winds damage from health stacking.

3 - Lower mana costs across the board, especially early on. If you lose first blue buff to a steal, or have any counter pressure, you have 0 mana to respond. It's entirely dependent between having blue buff, not having a mid who uses mana, and have great luck with a passive opposing jungle.

Any two of these changes will help make her viable, all 3 will bring her back to a semi competitive level, without changing a kit many Sej players truly love or massively overbuffing her. Everything about her is a ton of fun, it's all just way to hard to execute.

Thank you for your time, I'm glad you asked!


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EpicKyle

Member

12-15-2012

1. I like her E slow, I think its the strongest thing about her

2.I don't really like her q's long cool down. Its pretty long compared to other champs blinks/movement.

3.The real problem with sejuani is that she has barely any dmg and no tankiness, and her total CC r just mediocre. I think her w should proc her passive right when she activates it. (not procing the whole time during her w since I think that would be broken tbh) Also I think her ult needs should increase the stun if her opponent is frosted instead of applying fraost so her frost comes even more into play

PS- VIKTOR NEXT PLZ


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BuhBuhTech

Junior Member

12-15-2012

Shes just as squishy as Naut is in the new jungle. Naut has more damage and cc tho,


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Bloodmo0n

Senior Member

12-15-2012

I think her passive would be better as health regen of some kind, that's what she needs. She is awesome, her early game is just not good. I love stacking health on her, there are a lot of item choices that synergise with her (warmogs, rod of ages, randuins, frozen mallet, sunfire cape, Spirit of the blue golem), but there are very few magic resist items that can give health (not sure if chalice is a good pick or not), she can get super tanky and stickier than a lot of tanks.


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Marzbar

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Senior Member

12-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Hi folks,

We’re considering making some gameplay changes to Sejuani at the moment. As a result I'm looking to gather some thoughts on her current gameplay, in particular:

1. What do you like about her current kit/what would you be saddened to see changed or removed?

2. What do you dislike about her current kit?

3. What would you like to see tweaked or added?


Feedback much appreciated, this sort of discussion's been really valuable when doing previous gameplay changes. I'll be reading through every response here, though I won't have the time to respond directly to most of the posts unfortunately. I'll also be reading through a bunch of previous Sejuani discussion threads, wanted to create a new one though to get people's impressions in light of all the recent pre-season changes.
Im a big fan of Sejuani pre and post s3. I've played only 2 games as her since s3 and the items fills up her defences nicely so far.
1.Ult. It's soooo underated.

2. She has no innate defence ie:shield,passive buff, etcetc

3. I always tell my friends that Sejuani is a ganking jungler.
GANKING.
JUNGLER.

Yet her jungling isn't even that great. The w changes were great but it seems that you guys want to work around making her better without adding new abilities and stuff with might not be the best route.

I'm sure whatever you do will be great though so im anxious to see what things you have in store!


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regis daemon nex

Junior Member

12-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectram6 View Post
I like Sejuani's innate tankyness and the fact that she can keep a team slowed for days. However, I think her kit focuses a little too much on CC. I think she just does not deal enough damage to contribute to a team, and her CC goes on for more than long enough. She can keep a person slowed 3 minutes or more long after a team fight. However, all she has is soft CC except her ult for 1-2 seconds. It doesn't quite fit with AoE comps, and that's the only comp I can see her currently fitting with.
TL;DR too much focus on soft CC. bring in more hard CC or more damage.
its the lack of innate tankiness that is always criticized about sejuani though. She lacks any defensive steroids or shields that can mitigate damage like diana, shyvana, nautilus, etc nor does she have a regenerative ability like mundo or volibear but i am fine with that. like u mentioned before, her kit is cc reliant and her job is to lock ppl in place


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Chavez Ornelas

Member

12-15-2012

Give her W a shield (like Nautilus) or some Armor/Magic Resist (like Leona). That's all.