Looking for Sejuani Feedback

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MTaur

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post
On a side note it's worth mentioning that if you're jungling Sejuani then Liandries is really useful for taking down objectives like dragon and baron earlier.

Rylai's works well with Liandries while using Northern Winds to make it deal more damage on neutrals without having to use your Q, E or auto attack to slow them. I'd imagine I'll have to take Rylai's if I take Liandries on Sejuani after the passive changes for earlier control of objectives like Baron and Dragon.
It is true that Sejuani takes a month to do Dragon without Liandry's. It's a nice bonus, but maybe not the main course. The minion camps are not a big deal, though, since if you use W without any items at all and attack the big creep, the little creeps will still die first anyway. The big creep is that much stronger these days.

The Liandry's + Rylai's combo is a huge amount of gold and has zero resists. I can't see setting that up in a real game. I have had better luck just building tanky than I have the times I tried rushing Liandry's. If you just want to kill carries, Sunfire Cape will do almost as much damage as Liandry's, and you get a chunk of armor from it. Liandry's really shines if you're up against triple bruiser comps.

Sejuani also has enough in her kit to make Liandry's work all by itself. If you ult and wait two seconds to pop E, then you've already done a strong Liandry's proc on multiple targets. Liandry's has diminishing returns beyond that, and spamming autos can keep strong procs going with your W in any case. Sure it would sometimes get more strong procs with Rylai's, but it's something you have to pay for somewhere else - armor and MR, in this case. Rylai's, Sorc, Liandry's is a lot of money to get stuck with +30 armor and +0 MR.


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Razzcastic

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Senior Member

01-24-2013

I honestly thought she was fine. Her only problem was the damage output on the jungle camps... her clearing was pretty slow and dependent on the... I think it's her W? I only played her right when she came out.

Also... I may or may not have commented on this thread in when it was made...


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Romdeau

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Senior Member

01-24-2013

So here's my feedback on this champion.

Her jungle clears feels slow and vulnerable. Unless I get a mega leash at one of the buffs, I dip to below 1/3 HP with full defensive masteries and jungle runes using all of my health pots just to hit level 4. The new jungle (super single target creeps) has really hurt her because her clears are a lot slower now. The big golem in golem camp smacks Sejuani for what feels like 2HP pots because it takes so damn long to kill. So forget counterjungling, I'm crossing my fingers that the enemy jungler decides not to apply any pressure because I'm just a walking free kill on my first clear.

Second, her ult's animation is weird. It's a strong effect, but it isn't very salient and doesn't clearly signal to my allies or enemies "HEY I'M USING MY AMAZING ULT RIGHT NOW"-it's a small little snowflake that even I can barely see as I'm casting it. Of course when it lands your allies and opponents notice, but there's really no "signal" to build up to it-like when Amumu casts his bandage toss, your enemies and allies know there's a pretty decent chance he's gonna follow up with an ult as soon as he arrives. So yeah it's a strong effect, but it doesn't feel fun or cool to use and it has the aforementioned problem. I don't think it would be a problem if enemies can see it a bit earlier because it's ranged, has a huge hit box, and travels quickly. If anything else, it might add a little more counterplay (which is good in game design!)-so it's a win-win.


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Whyumai

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaur View Post
It is true that Sejuani takes a month to do Dragon without Liandry's. It's a nice bonus, but maybe not the main course. The minion camps are not a big deal, though, since if you use W without any items at all and attack the big creep, the little creeps will still die first anyway. The big creep is that much stronger these days.
This is true after a certain point in the jungle however at the start it's much more effective to spread your auto attacks to increase the effectiveness of Northern Winds. For example: I find I clear Wolves faster if I auto attack each of the wolves in turn while Northern Winds is running. That way I should kill the two small wolves quite quickly then finishing of the larger wolf a little later. This makes it quicker and I take less damage overall from the wolf camp.

However, certain it is true that later on in the game W (northern winds) will destroy camps. I always find it quicker with Liandries. Plus Liandries is more effective on high hp targets (that is targets that haven't been damaged yet) which since I normally initiate with Sejuani in team fights for my team will mean I should get the most effect out of my initial execution of my R -> E combo.

Furthermore, it really does take a long time to kill baron and dragon without Liandries, and since I'm always jungling with Sejuani (I honestly feel that's the only place for Sejuani on a team, atm) I do feel like it's important to be able to do those objectives effectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaur View Post
The Liandry's + Rylai's combo is a huge amount of gold and has zero resists. I can't see setting that up in a real game. I have had better luck just building tanky than I have the times I tried rushing Liandry's. If you just want to kill carries, Sunfire Cape will do almost as much damage as Liandry's, and you get a chunk of armor from it. Liandry's really shines if you're up against triple bruiser comps.
You are entirely correct that Liandries and Rylai combo is a large amount of gold and no resists. I do admit it's an issue. I typically build resists later on if the game goes that long. I should mention that if the support isn't building Aegis (which most supports normally do) I do tend to switch my build up.

The next part i get the feeling you probably most agree with, still, I think it's worth stating.

Having said that, I do not build Sejuani to kill carries (invariably there's almost always someone better on the team do that: mid, or top generally), but rather to increase the effectiveness of my jungle role and initiation. Sejuani can initiate quite well, and while I still say her jungling is average (comparatively) I do think with Rylai's and Liandries her jungling presence and initiation are increased.

That's the pigeon hold I put Sejuani in atm, she's not the best at it (imo) but she's certainly fun to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaur View Post
Sejuani also has enough in her kit to make Liandry's work all by itself. If you ult and wait two seconds to pop E, then you've already done a strong Liandry's proc on multiple targets. Liandry's has diminishing returns beyond that, and spamming autos can keep strong procs going with your W in any case. Sure it would sometimes get more strong procs with Rylai's, but it's something you have to pay for somewhere else - armor and MR, in this case. Rylai's, Sorc, Liandry's is a lot of money to get stuck with +30 armor and +0 MR.
I guess I build Rylai's because I feel without Rylai's Sejuani Northern Wind doesn't have the highest threat factor. I also feel after you have used your Q, R, and E, the only significant damage you can deal is with your Northern Winds (in a team fight) which means all the threat as you as a tank comes from that Northern Winds damage after you have initiated. While you can auto attack one target currently and increase the Northern Winds damage that way, I find I can normally get two players in my winds area, so unless I switch auto attack targets I find I'm losing out damage on one target.

I think it's good because it not only does it synergize well with your kit but it synergizes with other items you have bought for youe kit. Plus Spirit of the Ancient Golem + LIandries + Rylai's is a lot of HP, so once I have those three items point every extra point of MR and AR I buy is significantly more effective. Also with those three items I can initiation well and jungle well. I can soak some damage up too which is handy.

Also I figure Warmogs is gonna get nerfed into uselessness sooner or later, might as well find an effective build that doesn't rely on it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romdeau View Post
So here's my feedback on this champion.

Her jungle clears feels slow and vulnerable. Unless I get a mega leash at one of the buffs, I dip to below 1/3 HP with full defensive masteries and jungle runes using all of my health pots just to hit level 4. The new jungle (super single target creeps) has really hurt her because her clears are a lot slower now. The big golem in golem camp smacks Sejuani for what feels like 2HP pots because it takes so damn long to kill. So forget counterjungling, I'm crossing my fingers that the enemy jungler decides not to apply any pressure because I'm just a walking free kill on my first clear.
I completely agree. I find she's always kinda average in the jungle. Not poor or anything, but, feels weaker than others, if you know what I mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romdeau View Post
Second, her ult's animation is weird. It's a strong effect, but it isn't very salient and doesn't clearly signal to my allies or enemies "HEY I'M USING MY AMAZING ULT RIGHT NOW"-it's a small little snowflake that even I can barely see as I'm casting it. Of course when it lands your allies and opponents notice, but there's really no "signal" to build up to it-like when Amumu casts his bandage toss, your enemies and allies know there's a pretty decent chance he's gonna follow up with an ult as soon as he arrives. So yeah it's a strong effect, but it doesn't feel fun or cool to use and it has the aforementioned problem. I don't think it would be a problem if enemies can see it a bit earlier because it's ranged, has a huge hit box, and travels quickly. If anything else, it might add a little more counterplay (which is good in game design!)-so it's a win-win.
I dunno, I can see both sides, if it's more noticeable it's easier to avoid and that really hurts Sejuani's effectiveness as a initiator. Meanwhile, sometimes you're team isn't always paying attention and can miss things particularly if they aren't entirely noticeable.

I don't really see it as an advantage to have an easier to avoid ultimate on Sejuani. Although, you do have a point that sometimes I initiate and my entire team is standing around watching me 'till they realize I just stunned the enemy team. That part always happens with every initiator though, particularly in Solo Queue. Anyway, I feel it would be a nerf in top Elo tier play, but a big buff to low Elo tier play which might make Sejuani a pub stomper.


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Dunal

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post



I completely agree. I find she's always kinda average in the jungle. Not poor or anything, but, feels weaker than others, if you know what I mean.
Well I completely disagree. Her clear is now better than ever.

Well, her jungling isn't amazing or anything, but the last patch did nothing to make her jungling worse. Heck her jungle got a bit better because Frost no longer needs to be applied to the small minions to kill them with W. I feel people saying it had gotten worse are just thinking out loud from paper rather than actually trying it out.

That vid is without a leash and I would still had enough health to gank in a real game. Yeah.

OR... people are just not giving flat HP5 quints enough credit. Because they truly complement Sejuani's sustain (or lack of it, should I say). I would take MS or CDR quints in a 5v5... but in a solo queue game, HP5 is the only way to go (when you can't rely on a good leash).


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Whyumai

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunal View Post
Well I completely disagree. Her clear is now better than ever.

Well, her jungling isn't amazing or anything, but the last patch did nothing to make her jungling worse. Heck her jungle got a bit better because Frost no longer needs to be applied to the small minions to kill them with W. I feel people saying it had gotten worse are just thinking out loud from paper rather than actually trying it out.

That vid is without a leash and I would still had enough health to gank in a real game. Yeah.

OR... people are just not giving flat HP5 quints enough credit. Because they truly complement Sejuani's sustain (or lack of it, should I say). I would take MS or CDR quints in a 5v5... but in a solo queue game, HP5 is the only way to go (when you can't rely on a good leash).
I don't know if we are arguing or not.

I find many other junglers quicker, I find many other junglers gank better, and many other junglers sustain jungling better. She's not really great at invasion or recovery from invasion either (imo).

In comparison to other junglers I still find her pretty average. If the only position where she's truly effective ends up being the jungle: I'd hope that her jungling improves.


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Dunal

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post
I don't know if we are arguing or not.
Well, no. I was arguing with this to what you agreed to (though probably not):

Quote:
I dip to below 1/3 HP with full defensive masteries and jungle runes using all of my health pots just to hit level 4. The new jungle (super single target creeps) has really hurt her because her clears are a lot slower now.
That's just completely wrong and misleading. She can clear with ~90% health with a decent leash. Even with no leash you're fine.


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L2P Mate

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Senior Member

01-24-2013

wats a sejuani?


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Dunal

Senior Member

01-24-2013

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Originally Posted by L2P Mate View Post
wats a sejuani?
New and Original™ .


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Brian Krebs

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post

Rylai's works well with Liandries while using Northern Winds to make it deal more damage on neutrals without having to use your Q, E or auto attack to slow them. I'd imagine I'll have to take Rylai's if I take Liandries on Sejuani after the passive changes for earlier control of objectives like Baron and Dragon.

I suspect Spirit Stone, Liandries, and Sorc Shoes then followed by Rylai's, and Spirit of the Ancient Golem might be core on Sejuani with these passive changes.
Ok, saying that rylai's is core on sejuani is just wrong. In fact, the only truly core items on Sej is Haunting guise(later upgraded to liandry's, has everything she scales with, health, mpen, AP), Warmogs(this item is strong on anyone anyway), and sunfire(another strong item on anyone who builds mpen). Seriously, as the person with the second most games with sejuani, I puke in my mouth when I see a sej build rylai's because they could have built a Randuin's and been 3 times more effective. Even just a warden's mail is so good, that item by itself is really strong.

I find myself when I jungle I don't really upgrade my machete unless rare circumstances. However, I lane as sejuani more often than I jungle(and have had way more success, according to elobuff I have a 62 win percentage with sejuani when I take flash/ignite) and I'm not an expert on her jungle, but I've played enough games with her to understand her as a whole.