If Riot is willing to disable items on Dominion/TT...

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DJANGO UNCHAINED

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Why aren't they willing to disable Summoner Spells?

Thoughts on disabling Revive? It's literally the Flash spell of Dominion. I hate taking it but I know I have to.


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Talith PA

Senior Member

12-23-2012

For the same reason they don't disable flash on summoners rift.


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DJANGO UNCHAINED

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talith PA View Post
For the same reason they don't disable flash on summoners rift.
Flash invalidates champions if it's taken out of the game. That's the reason why it stays in the game.

Revive is a different matter. It's cooldown and use was balanced around Summoner's Rift.

They balanced Barrier from Proving Grounds. For a while, it wasn't even on Summoner's Rift.

There is no reason that Revive cannot be balanced/removed on Dominion.

Provide another argument. Revive is toxic to Dominion.


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ZallKlos

Senior Member

12-23-2012

I fail to see why a 9 minute cd ability is OP in a ~20 games. It's not SR where you can turtle until flash is up.


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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

12-23-2012

No. Having revive mandatory is good for the game mode like forcing the jungler to take smite is good in SR; you're locking them out of one summoner spell that could be used in combat. Exhaust, ignite and garrison are all stupidly broken spells, and a match with 10 revives means 10 less of these spells in the match.


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FDru

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDeadGrandma View Post
No. Having revive mandatory is good for the game mode like forcing the jungler to take smite is good in SR; you're locking them out of one summoner spell that could be used in combat. Exhaust, ignite and garrison are all stupidly broken spells, and a match with 10 revives means 10 less of these spells in the match.
Smite being a requirement to jungle is retarded and something Riot should have fixed a long time ago. How could anyone possibly consider mandatory summoner spells to be a good thing?


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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Because summoner spells in general are retarded. They have far too much of an impact on the game for something you don't need to farm for or ban, or even time right in the middle of a fight.

Do you honestly want the xin zhao/maokai ganking you out of the jungle at level 2 to have exhaust/ignite as well as flash?

A better solution would just be to only have 1 summoner instead of 2 THEN remove non pvp combat summoners.


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NamKim

Senior Member

12-23-2012

I know there's been discussions about keeping revive, but removing it as a summoner spell. Like, making revive the buff in the middle of the map or making it into a reward for completing some type of quest.

As for smite and revive, from what I heard now, it is practically required now. I know that at season 2, a handful of junglers did not need it, although, highly recommended due to it being a "nuke" to a dragon or baron to prevent steals. At the same time, I think most junglers were early gankers.

As for flash, I think since most SR players are so used to playing with it, taking it out would definitely give Riot a massive headache from their players. When pretty much every pro player/high elo player takes flash and uses it regularly for this long, there is no way for Riot to take it out without shooting themselves in the foot.

At least with revive, we are a smaller community. Even if removing it pisses us off, how is that any different than how we feel now? Most of us are somewhat angry at Riot about Dominion for one reason or another. Also, to be honest, I think that most of us are mature enough/adaptive enough where we can deal with the changes as long as Riot is willing to work with us. Kind of like season three brought the new Black Cleaver and this caused massive problems. But RiotNome is working on making Black Cleaver a more balanced item because it was insanely OP.

Edit: As for summoner's spell, I like them. The problem is I hate how I feel like if I pick a role, I am obligated to take certain spells. The same is applied with masteries and runes but my team do not get to see those until after the match...unless they decide to stalk me on lolking. I'll use SR since most of my frustration is directed there. If I jungle, I have to take smite or else I am trolling. If I support, I have to take exhaust or else I am a troll. If I am a carry, I have to have ignite, or else I'm a troll. If I don't take flash, I am troll.

At high Dominion elo, if someone on your team did not take revive, would you consider them a troll?


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bierfaust

Senior Member

12-24-2012

The problem with revive is it removes any ounce of strategy. Actually let me rephrase that, it counter-acts any degree of good strategy. It's fine for an ability to counter something, but to completely nullify it, that's just stupid.

If you're struggling to get top, you send 1 bot and gank their bot, kill them and go to take their tower. What's that, their bot laner just popped revive and is now right back at the point keeping you from taking it?, at best you could neutralise it. Or worse still, you send 2 bot, kill their very well entrenched bot laner like Yorick, which should be rewarded with a tower cap, only to have him come running back into the lane 4 secs later before you even get the minions up to the tower.
Killing the bot laner, especially a strong bot laner or any strong champion on the other team, should have more of an impact than it currently does because of revive. There is no "skill" on the defenders part by using revive after being ganked, it's just abuse of a spell that is making the game boring, preventing meaningful events from occurring (ganks) and not allowing the balance to shift in favour of the team that out plays their opponent at a given point in time.

This is bad for the game, as if team A out plays team B, then they deserve to reap the rewards, e.g. a tower cap. Revive also lessens the impact of killing 2-4 people at a top fight. This also has partly to do with the stupid handicap system and res timers, but that's for another thread to rant on.

Basically as it stands, revive removes any incentive to go all in and try and come out with at least 1 person alive to cap the tower, it rewards boring game play and severely reduces the impact of smart choices and out playing your opponent.

But as MyDeadGrandma said, with it currently being mandatory for anyone above 1500 ELO, it locks out the ability to carry 2 stupidly powerful combat spells that would make team fights so mind numbingly boring I would probably stop playing DOM altogether.

I think that they should change summoners spells into category's and remove revive. Offensive and defensive, or whatever you want to call them. But the point is to make the overpowered spells mutually exclusive.
E.G. You can take exhaust, but that prevents you form taking ignite.

Something like that would make people choose which is more important.Of course there would always be a "one best combo", there always will be. But the idea is to lessen the impact of summoner spells in terms of making the over all game boring. They should be used to change the course of a single fight that they are used in, not the course of the entire game at a single moment in time.


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Carolina Blues

Member

12-24-2012

I don't buy that revive has no strategy, if you just mindlessly hit revive every time it's up and you're dead you're not gonna get the best use out of it. As far as a bot laner reviving after a gank, just treat it like burning flash. Guess what he can't do it again for 9 minutes so I dunno just gank him again?


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