You can't get banned for having a bad game-- are you kidding me?

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DeathKiraX

Member

01-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
This is largely true. We've found that the Tribunal is really good at weeding out players who consistently display toxic behavior.

But one part the system could do better is in displaying this toxic behavior more clearly to players who will say anything to make themselves look innocent.

It's no secret that after you've received MANY reports, in MANY games, from MANY people, the system will then go through your Reported Games and randomly select them for a Tribunal case.

In some cases these games can be slam dunks, in other cases they may not be as clear cut. But if you get a guilty judgement you shouldn't just assume you were banned for "two games". A player is never banned simply for “two games”

In this case?

Well, two games were not the reason behind getting a Tribunal Case in the first place. We know that players have bad games. We’ve actually built the Tribunal System with this idea in mind.
That’s not what happened here. In fact, since the previous 3 Day suspension the player has been reported in over 45 games.

Over 45 Games? That's toxic behavior that affects over 405 players in League of Legends.
Think about that. 1 player vs. 405 ruined experiences in League of Legends.

Some of the things that most likely resulted in crossing the threshold to generate a Tribunal Case?

Well, half way through the game selling all of your AP Items on a caster and buying AD Items just to spite your team mates isn’t a very nice thing to do.

Afking at the Fountain because your Surrender Vote failed is another pretty effective way to gain reports and lose friends too.

Running in the jungle and using your character's Ult on creeps and minions to purposely anger your teammates? Yeah, that will probably do it too.

It’s a shame that those games were not among the randomly selected to be shown here. Because then we wouldn't even have to be having this conversation.

You mentioned that you had learned your lesson from your previous 3 day ban, but I'm not sure I believe you. Obviously you've cut back on the toxic speech, which is great. But there's a lot of way you can be a jerk to your team mates. And if you're not ready to be a teamplayer and treat others with the respect they deserve then perhaps you can really use this 7 day suspension to reflect more on what else you can do.

Because right now, what you're doing isn't working.

I thought the tribunal rules stated "5. Watch for flagrant reporting

If there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the player in the game and yet they are still getting reported, you should vote Pardon. All summoners are innocent until proven guilty. Sometimes players will report the entire enemy team if they can't recall who said what during the game. Other times, players just report the enemy for no good reason. Again, make sure to focus on the reported player."

So if this is true, how is assuming someone is guilty because there are more cases that we cannot see, innocent until proven guilty?


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Lothloran

Senior Member

01-02-2013

While playing LB and going 0/13 makes me sick to my stomach (considering LB is my favorite mid champ to play 99 times out of 100) "running around mid" is what she does. Dash Q, dash back R, Dash Q, etc She's the most evasive champion and you probably just aren't good with her.
Looking over everything, no you don't deserve this but I don't understand why you posted it, riot doesn't overturn time bans. Only permanent bans.


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Lothloran

Senior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
This is largely true. We've found that the Tribunal is really good at weeding out players who consistently display toxic behavior.

But one part the system could do better is in displaying this toxic behavior more clearly to players who will say anything to make themselves look innocent.

It's no secret that after you've received MANY reports, in MANY games, from MANY people, the system will then go through your Reported Games and randomly select them for a Tribunal case.

In some cases these games can be slam dunks, in other cases they may not be as clear cut. But if you get a guilty judgement you shouldn't just assume you were banned for "two games". A player is never banned simply for “two games”

In this case?

Well, two games were not the reason behind getting a Tribunal Case in the first place. We know that players have bad games. We’ve actually built the Tribunal System with this idea in mind.
That’s not what happened here. In fact, since the previous 3 Day suspension the player has been reported in over 45 games.

Over 45 Games? That's toxic behavior that affects over 405 players in League of Legends.
Think about that. 1 player vs. 405 ruined experiences in League of Legends.

Some of the things that most likely resulted in crossing the threshold to generate a Tribunal Case?

Well, half way through the game selling all of your AP Items on a caster and buying AD Items just to spite your team mates isn’t a very nice thing to do.

Afking at the Fountain because your Surrender Vote failed is another pretty effective way to gain reports and lose friends too.

Running in the jungle and using your character's Ult on creeps and minions to purposely anger your teammates? Yeah, that will probably do it too.

It’s a shame that those games were not among the randomly selected to be shown here. Because then we wouldn't even have to be having this conversation.

You mentioned that you had learned your lesson from your previous 3 day ban, but I'm not sure I believe you. Obviously you've cut back on the toxic speech, which is great. But there's a lot of way you can be a jerk to your team mates. And if you're not ready to be a teamplayer and treat others with the respect they deserve then perhaps you can really use this 7 day suspension to reflect more on what else you can do.

Because right now, what you're doing isn't working.

I'm only going to reply to one section of your post... That is the "45" reports. This may be true, he may have 9001 reports but tribunal volunteers only have the 2 reports in front of them, and cannot (or at least should not) punish based on the assumption that he deserves to be there simply because he is there.
The evidence in these 2 reports is not, in my opinion, grounds for a ban. It's clear that we disagree given you're privy to information I am not, but the information available to the average player says he is innocent, if he is toxic as you claim he would end up in the system again, maybe with more credible report cards and get his just desserts.
That is my two cents.

Also, there is no evidence that he sold his items to "spite" his teammates. No offense to you, sir or madam, but I'm glad you're responsible for an internet court rather than even the most basic civil real life court room. No real jury would have convicted this player simply because of the evidence, regardless of facts known or unknown, as it seem outweigh true justice, and I wish more tribunal volunteers took this attitude. The evidence presented asserts that he switched his build to try to be a better player for his team and making the assumption of anything else is irresponsible.


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Lothloran

Senior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathKiraX View Post
I thought the tribunal rules stated "5. Watch for flagrant reporting

If there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the player in the game and yet they are still getting reported, you should vote Pardon. All summoners are innocent until proven guilty. Sometimes players will report the entire enemy team if they can't recall who said what during the game. Other times, players just report the enemy for no good reason. Again, make sure to focus on the reported player."

So if this is true, how is assuming someone is guilty because there are more cases that we cannot see, innocent until proven guilty?
Hey, what's the fasted way to get downvoted in trib? Use common sense and decency because everyone wants to forget about the fact that we are supposed to be gracious and just, and what is more than just? Exacting justice on all, regardless of the evidence. I'm sorry, I'll upvote you, but I'm afraid it will be in vain.


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Zurgos Warrior

Member

06-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
This is largely true. We've found that the Tribunal is really good at weeding out players who consistently display toxic behavior.

But one part the system could do better is in displaying this toxic behavior more clearly to players who will say anything to make themselves look innocent.

It's no secret that after you've received MANY reports, in MANY games, from MANY people, the system will then go through your Reported Games and randomly select them for a Tribunal case.

In some cases these games can be slam dunks, in other cases they may not be as clear cut. But if you get a guilty judgement you shouldn't just assume you were banned for "two games". A player is never banned simply for “two games”

In this case?

Well, two games were not the reason behind getting a Tribunal Case in the first place. We know that players have bad games. We’ve actually built the Tribunal System with this idea in mind.
That’s not what happened here. In fact, since the previous 3 Day suspension the player has been reported in over 45 games.

Over 45 Games? That's toxic behavior that affects over 405 players in League of Legends.
Think about that. 1 player vs. 405 ruined experiences in League of Legends.

Some of the things that most likely resulted in crossing the threshold to generate a Tribunal Case?

Well, half way through the game selling all of your AP Items on a caster and buying AD Items just to spite your team mates isn’t a very nice thing to do.

Afking at the Fountain because your Surrender Vote failed is another pretty effective way to gain reports and lose friends too.

Running in the jungle and using your character's Ult on creeps and minions to purposely anger your teammates? Yeah, that will probably do it too.

It’s a shame that those games were not among the randomly selected to be shown here. Because then we wouldn't even have to be having this conversation.

You mentioned that you had learned your lesson from your previous 3 day ban, but I'm not sure I believe you. Obviously you've cut back on the toxic speech, which is great. But there's a lot of way you can be a jerk to your team mates. And if you're not ready to be a teamplayer and treat others with the respect they deserve then perhaps you can really use this 7 day suspension to reflect more on what else you can do.

Because right now, what you're doing isn't working.
As a Riot staff member, I am sure you are aware most people here just spam reports after games just for losing or simply because someone got a score like "2/5/10" and call them feeders. I've personally seen this, and I always get reported every game I lose or simply because of troll teams who say in queue "we are premade, we will report you after this game stupid noob".
Getting reports does not necessarily mean one is toxic, in fact, it is even possible toxic people are just spamming reports. It may be one of those cases with bad luck, and we don't have enough evidence to judge.


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WReX85

Senior Member

06-02-2013

Quote:
Might I remind everyone here that (As Lyte has explained numerous times, I might add) the only way to show up in the tribunal in the first place was to have numerous reports- more than any other Summoner.

You had an attitude in the second game OP, if you are in the tribunal at all it means you have demonstrated a pattern of this behavior.
Quote:
This is largely true.
This is largely untrue, proven by your own previous posts. Wookie once stated that the average peson in the tribunal has a 12-30% report per game ratio.

So now say you are like me. You are competitive and only play ranked. You play 100 games. Out of those 100 games how many do you think that you will end up feeding and doing pretty bad? Maybe 12.... maybe more? Naturally some butt hurt kid is going to report you for the sole purpose that he lost. No other reason, he just reported you because you did the worst of the team and they need to blame some one and get them banned. I find 12% of reports is VERY easy to obtain in ranked. Hell even 20% is. So the fact that you need to display some sort of "pattern" or the fact that you need a "lot" of reports to get in the tribunal is pure nonsense and an outright lie.

Now out of the those games you did poorly you get agitated by the non stop flaming you get from your team, you fire back a few flames, and BAM your in the zone to get punished. Regardless of the situation, regardless of what you think, the crybunal will punish you for your negativity. Out of your 100 games you have a few games where you have hit your edge and that game could be on your reform card. That one game will get you punished. Largely the mentality of the tribunal is "you were toxic this so you must be toxic in MANY other games" PUNISH.

Even though you have a slew of great games this small percentage of your games "12-30%" will get you on your way to a permaban. This system needs reworking.... but thats not going to happen. Riot is so balls deep in this system now there is no turning. They are now in the cover your own ass mode and have to spit out one sided biased statistics and pretty charts to try and quell the constant discontent for the tribunal.

The current system only enables trolls. They piss you off, and once you show your frustration via game chat they have got you. The report you and they spam punish in the tribunal. I just cant see the logic behind how the tribunal came about. "Hmmmmm ou'r games community is largely toxic and irrational. I think it would be a good idea to empower them with the ability to ban each other." LOL such failed logic. Lyte... you really showed your ass with this one.


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ZyraTheJinx

Senior Member

06-02-2013

Quan Chi, stahp


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powerbats

Senior Member

06-02-2013

Ah the joys of anti Tribunal Troll necroing old threads and only taking what information they can to prove their bias is correct when they know it's wrong.

Time to give it the Shelzin treatment.


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KS Proxy

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Senior Member

06-02-2013

Yorick stahp.


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WReX85

Senior Member

06-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerbats View Post
Ah the joys of anti Tribunal Troll necroing old threads and only taking what information they can to prove their bias is correct when they know it's wrong.

Time to give it the Shelzin treatment.
Ah he joys of the ignorant tribunal fanboys that call any one with a differing opinion a troll, and can only develop an opinion on what riot tells them instead of thinking for themselves.