You can't get banned for having a bad game-- are you kidding me?

First Riot Post
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Rysan Marquise

Senior Member

12-15-2012

Alright. Lets take a scenario.

Lets assume that you have a number of variables.

Toxicity: How unpleasant the player is to play with.
Play Variation: How inconsistently the player plays.
Other Variables: Other biases the community might target on.

Lets assume then that:
Toxicity varies depending upon game, and tends to rise on bad games with all players.
Game success: This trait is variable and dependent upon toxicity of other players.

Likewise, lets assume that there is a level of Toxicity that is 'too toxic'. One level that causes reports, and another level that causes Tribunal punishments.


Under such a set of circumstances, those that receive a number of reports for 'Poor play' are at a hugely indiscriminate level reported, contrary to those to are just generally toxic. There are several reasons for this.

1: They receive more basic reports - for no reason. This increases the chances and speed of them being brought to Tribunal where only one genuinely toxic case is required. Likewise, their games tend towards being very positive or very negative, leading to an overall increase in toxicity spirals. Likewise, during games in which everyone is failing reports skyrocket, as reporting itself is often manifested as a toxic behavior and occurs more in failing games.

2: A major indicator of several types of negative behavior is 'doing poorly'. This also sets up poor play as a false flag for more traditionally reportable offenses.

3: Assuming in-game report and out-of-game punish Toxicity requirements differ(which I would argue they do), then otherwise acceptable behavior is punished with a great deal more regularity.

Tribunal Statistics are currently hard to come by in bulk for current stats, I could make my case more completely with access to better numbers, but they are just too hard to come by right now.

The short of it is, the Tribunal heavily weights itself towards those who get reported being punished, and those who get reported are those who do poorly in games. If these were racial differences it would be clearly abhorrent, but instead it just biases itself against certain play-styles.

I would have let this rest, but that response was incredibly abhorrent to me, an insult to all works of social science I have ever seen. I am going to be bumping this until someone from riot corrects or apologizes.


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Rysan Marquise

Senior Member

12-15-2012

Bump


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NoFxFireBlaze

Junior Member

12-17-2012

So wait... Riot's response is well you're in the tribunal so you're guilty even if the games don't show that I finally understand how and why the Tribunal works how it does. Riot doesn't want responsibility for the actions of administrating their game so they pawn it off on players, a majority of which have very little knowledge of the game to begin with and Riot employee's are throwing out the guilty until proven innocent stance.

Gocha, solid response from Riot way to own up.


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Carrane

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Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
This is largely true. We've found that the Tribunal is really good at weeding out players who consistently display toxic behavior.

But one part the system could do better is in displaying this toxic behavior more clearly to players who will say anything to make themselves look innocent.

It's no secret that after you've received MANY reports, in MANY games, from MANY people, the system will then go through your Reported Games and randomly select them for a Tribunal case.

In some cases these games can be slam dunks, in other cases they may not be as clear cut. But if you get a guilty judgement you shouldn't just assume you were banned for "two games". A player is never banned simply for “two games”

In this case?

Well, two games were not the reason behind getting a Tribunal Case in the first place. We know that players have bad games. We’ve actually built the Tribunal System with this idea in mind.
That’s not what happened here. In fact, since the previous 3 Day suspension the player has been reported in over 45 games.

Over 45 Games? That's toxic behavior that affects over 405 players in League of Legends.
Think about that. 1 player vs. 405 ruined experiences in League of Legends.

Some of the things that most likely resulted in crossing the threshold to generate a Tribunal Case?

Well, half way through the game selling all of your AP Items on a caster and buying AD Items just to spite your team mates isn’t a very nice thing to do.

Afking at the Fountain because your Surrender Vote failed is another pretty effective way to gain reports and lose friends too.

Running in the jungle and using your character's Ult on creeps and minions to purposely anger your teammates? Yeah, that will probably do it too.

It’s a shame that those games were not among the randomly selected to be shown here. Because then we wouldn't even have to be having this conversation.

You mentioned that you had learned your lesson from your previous 3 day ban, but I'm not sure I believe you. Obviously you've cut back on the toxic speech, which is great. But there's a lot of way you can be a jerk to your team mates. And if you're not ready to be a teamplayer and treat others with the respect they deserve then perhaps you can really use this 7 day suspension to reflect more on what else you can do.

Because right now, what you're doing isn't working.
This is probably the worst thought out post ever. By this logic, the tribunal is a flawed system...so we shouldn't have it at all


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Rysan Marquise

Senior Member

12-19-2012

I am actually kinda angry they shunted this here to die after making such a horrifying post. Continued bump.


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Hallows Evelynn

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
This is largely true. We've found that the Tribunal is really good at weeding out players who consistently display toxic behavior.

But one part the system could do better is in displaying this toxic behavior more clearly to players who will say anything to make themselves look innocent.

It's no secret that after you've received MANY reports, in MANY games, from MANY people, the system will then go through your Reported Games and randomly select them for a Tribunal case.

In some cases these games can be slam dunks, in other cases they may not be as clear cut. But if you get a guilty judgement you shouldn't just assume you were banned for "two games". A player is never banned simply for “two games”

In this case?

Well, two games were not the reason behind getting a Tribunal Case in the first place. We know that players have bad games. We’ve actually built the Tribunal System with this idea in mind.
That’s not what happened here. In fact, since the previous 3 Day suspension the player has been reported in over 45 games.

Over 45 Games? That's toxic behavior that affects over 405 players in League of Legends.
Think about that. 1 player vs. 405 ruined experiences in League of Legends.

Some of the things that most likely resulted in crossing the threshold to generate a Tribunal Case?

Well, half way through the game selling all of your AP Items on a caster and buying AD Items just to spite your team mates isn’t a very nice thing to do.

Afking at the Fountain because your Surrender Vote failed is another pretty effective way to gain reports and lose friends too.

Running in the jungle and using your character's Ult on creeps and minions to purposely anger your teammates? Yeah, that will probably do it too.

It’s a shame that those games were not among the randomly selected to be shown here. Because then we wouldn't even have to be having this conversation.

You mentioned that you had learned your lesson from your previous 3 day ban, but I'm not sure I believe you. Obviously you've cut back on the toxic speech, which is great. But there's a lot of way you can be a jerk to your team mates. And if you're not ready to be a teamplayer and treat others with the respect they deserve then perhaps you can really use this 7 day suspension to reflect more on what else you can do.

Because right now, what you're doing isn't working.

by this logic, a nice but new person at LoL that doesnt say anything offensive at all in any of the games he play is still toxic for going 5/10, 0/9, 9/20, and etc in 45 of his games.


now this player is obviously not offensive. infact he is the nicest guy you have ever played with. but because that ONE ****** on your team loves winning more than life itself will report u every time for being bad and "feeding". he will click that "intentional feeding" button all day, **** how nice u are in game right? what you seem to be ignoring is that there will ALWAYS be someone that reports you for having a bad game or, if the guy is really trolltastic, for having a good game and snowballing. does it happen every game? no, but it does happen way to often regardless. and when it does happen you are at the mercy of the community. and guess what the community contains? yep thats right, trolls. ive seen people on this forum openly admit to just pressing the punish button without a care in the world and there is strong evidence to people that do this. funny how you rioters do not respond on the more clear cut cases like this one http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2916159.

flawed system is flawed.


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Me Chinese 051

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caristinn View Post
EDIT: A Rioter has responded. Response to it below.



Please read the link. The chat log is extremely short, and there's only two games.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../6038078/#nogo

Seriously?

First Game: I was reported for having the word "Girl" in my name. LOL? Does Riot even realize how incredibly sexist this community is? "go back in the kitchen you ho"

Second Game: I play support LeBlanc in normals (I usually do really well as unconventional supports. 3-0 as Support Teemo, 2-1 as Support LeBlanc). The problem is the enemy bot lane did really well, and I ended up with 0-13-5.

3 day ban. Done buying RP.

If you don't respond to flames, you get banned.
If you respond to flames, you get banned (this is how I got a warning before. I begrudgingly accepted this.)

What do you do if you do poorly in a match? Do you just AFK? That's reportable too.


That was in response to Zyra who asked "why you have to be so gay" after I bursted her to 15% of her health. Teemo, LeBlanc, and Singed are the holy trinity of annoying champions.


I never flamed back at anyone. The most flaming I did was comment to Lee Sin that Lee mid isn't a standard pick either, and telling Ezreal (constructively and politely) that he should poke with his Q when the enemies run into the brush.


And I reformed after realizing that you're not allowed to respond to people insulting you. That wasn't enough, apparently. Even if you don't respond, the tribunal will still hit punish.


Above is why I can't sent an e-mail.


I didn't want to take experience away from the carries post lane phase. Also, LeBlanc falls off... like, really hard. This is before the preseason changes.

EDIT: If anyone wants to play together on their smurfs, post your IGN :3. Mine is only level 16, but I'm working on getting it to 30 before I'm eventually permabanned.
I get to say. He is not a good player. (probably) It's alright to play LB support in normal games.. But he should take the blame for died 13 times.

His attitude for game#2 was not very positive too.

However, we should not be mean to other ppl.

We can't expect everyone to act optimistically.

It's also fine to feel depressed when losing a game. .

I would blame him for not buying enough wards as support. It's not ranked games anyway.

He doesn't deserve a ban for that.... overall And he deserves a lot of blame for the second game playing support LB. lol


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BDR

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
This is largely true. We've found that the Tribunal is really good at weeding out players who consistently display toxic behavior.

But one part the system could do better is in displaying this toxic behavior more clearly to players who will say anything to make themselves look innocent.

It's no secret that after you've received MANY reports, in MANY games, from MANY people, the system will then go through your Reported Games and randomly select them for a Tribunal case.

In some cases these games can be slam dunks, in other cases they may not be as clear cut. But if you get a guilty judgement you shouldn't just assume you were banned for "two games". A player is never banned simply for “two games”

In this case?

Well, two games were not the reason behind getting a Tribunal Case in the first place. We know that players have bad games. We’ve actually built the Tribunal System with this idea in mind.
That’s not what happened here. In fact, since the previous 3 Day suspension the player has been reported in over 45 games.

Over 45 Games? That's toxic behavior that affects over 405 players in League of Legends.
Think about that. 1 player vs. 405 ruined experiences in League of Legends.

Some of the things that most likely resulted in crossing the threshold to generate a Tribunal Case?

Well, half way through the game selling all of your AP Items on a caster and buying AD Items just to spite your team mates isn’t a very nice thing to do.

Afking at the Fountain because your Surrender Vote failed is another pretty effective way to gain reports and lose friends too.

Running in the jungle and using your character's Ult on creeps and minions to purposely anger your teammates? Yeah, that will probably do it too.

It’s a shame that those games were not among the randomly selected to be shown here. Because then we wouldn't even have to be having this conversation.

You mentioned that you had learned your lesson from your previous 3 day ban, but I'm not sure I believe you. Obviously you've cut back on the toxic speech, which is great. But there's a lot of way you can be a jerk to your team mates. And if you're not ready to be a teamplayer and treat others with the respect they deserve then perhaps you can really use this 7 day suspension to reflect more on what else you can do.

Because right now, what you're doing isn't working.
Damn. That's legit.
Good on ya, mate.


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Rysan Marquise

Senior Member

12-19-2012

I will continue to bump this until Riot gives a better answer, one that isn't actively bad.

I have about as much outrage as I can really muster at someone saying something wrong on the internet. Expect bumps for the next month or two until this is recanted somehow.


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RossumEcho

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Looking at this, the first game really was nothing. But troll or not it still counts unfortunately....

Second game, I would say based on not only how you went 0/13 but the fact that it was 45 mins long and you're level 13, also judging solely based on chat it looks like you were talking the whole time....but again, you're only level 13 which tells me that you probably just sat at base and watched the whole time.

I'm pretty sure the majority of people punished you based on your second game.