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Counter build Black Ceaver!?

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CaliBoooy

Recruiter

12-13-2012

The Black Cleaver

+250 Health +50 Attack Damage +10% Cooldown Reduction +15 Armor Penetration

Passive: Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion reduces their Armor by 7.5% for 4 seconds. This effect stacks up to 4 times.

Alright so ive been having game were a champion will stack up to 2 black cleavers.
so 2 black cleavers


+500 health +100 Attack Damage +20% Cooldown reduction +30 Armor penetration

Thornmail
+100 Armor

UNIQUE Passive: On being hit by basic attacks, returns 30% of damage taken as magic damage

Randuin's Omen
+500 Health +70 Armor

UNIQUE Passive - Cold Steel: If you are hit by a basic attack, you slow the attacker\'s Attack Speed by 20% and their Movement Speed by 10% for 1.5 seconds. UNIQUE Active: Slows the Movement Speed of nearby enemy units by 35% for 2 seconds + 1 second for every 100 Armor and Magic Resistance you have - 60 second cooldown.


+170 Amor +500health


UNIQUE Passive - Cold Steel: If you are hit by a basic attack, you slow the attacker\'s Attack Speed by 20% and their Movement Speed by 10% for 1.5 seconds. UNIQUE Active: Slows the Movement Speed of nearby enemy units by 35% for 2 seconds + 1 second for every 100 Armor and Magic Resistance you have - 60 second cooldown.

UNIQUE Passive: On being hit by basic attacks, returns 30% of damage taken as magic damage

So this is were you pick your items to be used at your advantage

If you are Ap simply dig in to
Liandry's Torment
+70 Ability Power +200 Health

UNIQUE Passive - Eyes of Pain: +15 Magic Penetration UNIQUE Passive: Dealing spell damage burns enemies for 5% of their current Health as magic damage over 3 seconds. If their movement is impaired, they take double damage from this effect. (Half duration for multi-target or periodic effects, 300 max vs. monsters.)

If you are ad

The Bloodthirster

+60 Attack Damage +12% Life Steal

Passive: Gain bonus +1 Attack Damage and +0.20% Life Steal per kill. Bonuses cap at +40 Attack Damage and +8% Life Steal. Half of bonuses are lost upon death.

If this Helps you Let me Know
If you have any Ideas or comments leave them plz i would love to see them
my opinion on black cleaver Hotfix it its a little to Strong
Also if you would like to add on go for it

Ive been having a lot o black cleaver ever since revamp of the item in most games its a must have for Ad
For most of the Items now that have been revamped or are just new most of them have some flaws
as all items do when they are first put out riot will eventually fix them to make the game balanced
and i know there is a number of them "counts fingers and toes "

this does the trick

Frozen Heart
+90 Armor +400 Mana +20% Cooldown Reduction

UNIQUE Aura: Reduces the Attack Speed of nearby enemies by 20%.


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Autocthon

Senior Member

12-13-2012

If the enemy is stacking penetration form Cleavrs just stack health. They'll have no reliable crit or AS and therefore health will be able to shut them down.


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Apoptosine

Senior Member

12-13-2012

the problem isn't that it can't be countered, it's that it MUST be countered at the cost of so much else. Also when your team is 3-4 levels behind 14 minutes into the game and the other team has 2 people with 2 cleavers , and a third member with yet another one... There is no countering, the damage is already done, Forget about laning it's a full map domination /push with those 2 assassin double cleaver wielders. Talon, Darius, Pantheon--who else? Zed maybe?

Nice try.

(I didn't down vote you)


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TealNinje

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Apoptosine:
the problem isn't that it can't be countered, it's that it MUST be countered at the cost of so much else. Also when your team is 3-4 levels behind 14 minutes into the game and the other team has 2 people with 2 cleavers , and a third member with yet another one... There is no countering, the damage is already done, Forget about laning it's a full map domination /push with those 2 assassin double cleaver wielders. Talon, Darius, Pantheon--who else? Zed maybe?

Nice try.

(I didn't down vote you)

So what you're saying is.

When the enemy has thoroughly stomped you WITHOUT Black Cleaver, it is too late to counter Black Cleaver.

I'm afraid at that point, it's too late to counter anything. They might even be able to destroy you without any items at all. On the other hand, refusing to counter-build the enemy is a sign of weakness. The game is as much about strategy as it is about skill.


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CaliBoooy

Recruiter

12-13-2012

Quote:
Apoptosine:
the problem isn't that it can't be countered, it's that it MUST be countered at the cost of so much else. Also when your team is 3-4 levels behind 14 minutes into the game and the other team has 2 people with 2 cleavers , and a third member with yet another one... There is no countering, the damage is already done, Forget about laning it's a full map domination /push with those 2 assassin double cleaver wielders. Talon, Darius, Pantheon--who else? Zed maybe?

Nice try.

(I didn't down vote you)


so you are not having a problems with the cleaver, you are having a problem with your individual play style Learn to press tab every know and then to look what your enemy is building and where he is at, at all times . you are making it seem as if someone with a black cleavers is unstoppable. with the items i informed you they will help to build sustain while applying cc to your target. If you are telling me 1 person is completely unstoppable this game is 5v5 not 1v5. also Learning to Kite Helps you should watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZjRgm4mF_U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZjRgm4mF_U) Pheak demonstrates some kiteing as nidalee
so you yourself CAN DO TONS OF DAMAGE - Pheak


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Beaumains

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Apoptosine:
the problem isn't that it can't be countered, it's that it MUST be countered at the cost of so much else.


Isn't that just true generally? I mean, you get AR to counter physical damage generally, you get MR to counter magic damage, you get health to counter % & true damage, you get pen to counter resistances, and you get damage to counter health. And then there are champions that have abilities you build to counter: QSS for suppression, Tenacity for most other CC, AR boots against auto-attackers, Spellshields (or ZHG) to block spell damage completely (e.g. Karth ult), Mallet/Rylai's to counter speed, the list goes on.

How is this fundamentally any different? One of the first commenters was right in that, a 4-cleaver noob can be ignored (even now before the nerf); their only threat is a 30% ar shred; so against the only champion doing damage (i.e. the carry), all your armor is still good, and stacking a bit of health (e.g. a Warmogs or Omen) basically shuts down the 4-cleaver noob.


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67chrome

Senior Member

12-13-2012

The % armor penetration on Black Cleaver only applies faster when you build multiple cleavers, you still have a maximum stack of 4 %armor reductions with the debuff. And while % armor penetration hurts armor counters, 30% doesn't negate armor by any stretch. As for the stacking flat penetration:

Flat penetration is inherently good against lightly armored targets, reaching 100 flat armor penetration will net you 100% more damage against a target with 100 armor, only 50% more against someone with 200 armor, and 33% against someone with 300 armor.

So you still get a solid boost to survival with armor against armor penetrations.

With the new items, mages have 3 options to add armor in with their AP, tanks and supports can grant armor to teammates in an arua, the only class at a big disadvantage is AD scaling champions. Which, you know, can get their own cleavers.


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