Black Cleaver

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Korst

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Junior Member

12-12-2012

It's impossible to play with this item in game. Can't u just block it? Until the next patch everyone will build 3 black cleavers and **** the game. Do something about this item soon as possible.


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Keuzen

Senior Member

12-12-2012

I do not see why you complain. While getting more than one will allow you to stack the effect quicker, the effect does not apply more than once, allowing no more than 25% armor penetration. Not a big deal.


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adc

Member

12-12-2012

LOL.

250 HP, 50 AD, 10% CDR, 15 flat penetration, plus a faster stack on it. How is that ok?


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Keuzen

Senior Member

12-12-2012

It costs 3,000 gold. With that 3,000, perhaps you can buy something equally strong. It is expensive, but, like other expensive items, it is pretty strong. I am sure that Riot took a good while considering its stats, along with its price. Please explain what bothers you the most out of this item. Personally, I would think people would dislike the new DeathFire Grasp since it does less damage now.


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adc

Member

12-12-2012

First, DFG: 15% of their health + 20% increased damage on all your other spells. It transfers the damage from DFG to your other spells, that's all.

Second, this is what bothers me about BC:

I'm playing, say, Kha'zix. What do I need? I need some sort of armor penetration, since they can build armor and render me useless. I need some sort of health, since I have to be close to them. I need some sort of CDR, so that I can cast my spells more often. And I need AD, or my spells won't scale.

What does Black Cleaver give?

+250 health
+50 attack damage
+10% cooldown reduction
+15 armor penetration
Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion reduces their armor by 7.5% for 4 seconds. This effect stacks up to 4 times.

250 HP. This means that you're going to have something like 2.5k-3k health just from getting 4 BCs and LW at level 18.

50 AD. This means that, with 4 BCs and LW, you'll have as much AD as an AD Carry will have, while still having that HP.

10 CDR. This means I can buy 4 BCs and LW and have the CDR cap without needing blue buff or to itemize without losing damage.

15 armor penetration. This is 60 armor penetration from 4 BCs, on top of the fact that ANY physical damage will instantly shred 30% of their armor. Throw a LW with it, and you're getting something like 50% of their armor gone as soon as you touch them with any physical damage, PLUS 60 penetration. Not to mention anything you get from runes or masteries. This means a guy who builds 300 armor will effectively have 90 armor as soon as you do any damage to them.

The stacking armor shred - well, I covered that in my last point.

Overall, it's just toooooo goood.


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speced

Junior Member

12-12-2012

Too counter Bc, the most effective way i've found is building hp+dmg as in Fm, Warmogs. Most bc players are burst as like panth, talon, rengar. Survive the burst win the fight.


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Best Novi NA

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Senior Member

12-12-2012

I think a good way to counter it would be less armor. If you spend money on the armor that you know is going to be countered, then you are wasting your money.


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adc

Member

12-12-2012

Yeah, but if you build no armor, you're now effectively saying "I just want so much health they can't kill me."

So now they have close to 300 AD and they're doing true damage to you with all their spells (Kha'zix 500+ damage on Q, plus the 12% missing health for the evolved Q, for example). Say they bought a blade of the ruined king or whatever it's called, they're now doing percentage damage.

Black Cleavers are broken. They give you everything you could possibly want on an AD caster without having to itemize and trade off to get different things - and it has good numbers on it, too.


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xXCFXx Avenger

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by speced View Post
Too counter Bc, the most effective way i've found is building hp+dmg as in Fm, Warmogs. Most bc players are burst as like panth, talon, rengar. Survive the burst win the fight.
I stack BC on urgot, i don't stop bursting


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

12-12-2012

The thing is... if Black Cleaver were just Armor Penetration, that'd be one thing.

But it's not. It's armor shred.

So consider:

Quote:
Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion reduces their armor by 7.5% for 4 seconds. This effect stacks up to 4 times.
Now, take a Darius with 4 Black Cleavers who Q's all five players on the enemy team. All of the sudden, with one simple Q, they all have 25% less armor. That doesn't mean Darius does more damage to them. That means Darius' entire team does more physical damage to the entire enemy team.

It's not armor penetration. It's armor shred.


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