Crystalline Flask is OP and make the game in a sustain meta

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IS13940001471ffbdf28d0e

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Crystalline Flask is a horrible item. I don't know if it is cheap or not. But the concept is horrible.

You gain gold by no buying potions in a long-term.

You can start 5 potions+ ward+ crystalline flask when the game starts. This make you have 8 potions. You will always be full health, what tend to passive gameplay, what you guys hate.


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Kadajko

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Crystalline flask is what helps champions with mana issues lane vs champions that don't have mana issues, I think it is a good thing.


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IS13940001471ffbdf28d0e

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Or you buy a mana potion? Crystaline flask is cheap and you if you buy in the beginning and stay for 25 min min, you gain 450 gold.


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Kadajko

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper Blood View Post
Or you buy a mana potion? Crystaline flask is cheap and you if you buy in the beginning and stay for 25 min min, you gain 450 gold.
Yes you buy the flask instead of health potions, and then buy mana potions instead of health potions. That's how flask helps with mana issues. Because you still need health sustain in some form.


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Beaumains

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper Blood View Post
You can start 5 potions+ ward+ crystalline flask when the game starts. This make you have 8 potions. You will always be full health, what tend to passive gameplay, what you guys hate.
Pots actually encourage aggressive play, because you can "spend" health & mana to engage your enemy, and then use pots to recover, thus giving you the edge. Pots are completely wasted by passive gameplay, so your analysis is flawed there. Therefore, Flask is especially good at encouraging aggressive play, because you essentially get free pots = free mistakes & free engagements, for less gold. I think Flask pays for itself on the 3rd or 4th trip by the way, so where before we got pots to cover our Level 1 game, now we get a Flask and be more aggressive throughout the early game, and even through the whole game, until we need to give that up for our final item.

Furthermore, it's just as good on champs with mana recovery. I can't think of a "mana sustain" champ that doesn't have some special tie to that - usually they have to kill something to gain mana. Kass is an exception, but he has to put himself in a dangerous spot as trade. Flask means that these champions can be less passive by foregoing the traditionally good management they'd otherwise need, and use more of their mana for harassment and engagements. Karth can ping more, Malz can pop Visions straight up; Annie, Cho, Swain, and Veigar can all hit more; Kass doesn't have to wade into the minion line.

As far as I can see it, the only potentially broken item right now is Eleisa's Miracle. Why every mana-using champion in the game doesn't rush this as their first item I can only assume is because they didn't read the label - after all, who wouldn't want to double their health & mana regen for free?


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EndOmega

Member

12-13-2012

If items that allow you to use items without buying them is OP then you might as well add the Sightstones in there with the Flask.

No, you aren't buying HP pots anymore and yes its saving you gold for items later, but the offset for that is the fact that the Flask doesnt heal as much as a normal pot. In fact if you look at the math, the cost of the flask is essentially 6.4 pots, so basically 7 pots. In those 7 pots you would get 1050 HP, while 7 uses of the Flask is only 700 HP, so you are basically losing early gold in exchange for a better investment later. It's really no different from buying the expensive GP10 (Sorry, I consider 725/800 expensive compared to other material items like the crystals, ect) to let them build up gold over time.

This item is great for top lanes because of the fact that there are actually alot of top lane champs who either dont have mana (Riven, Rumble, Vlad, Mundo, Garen, Tryndamere, Rengar, ect) or use very little mana (Teemo).

Champs like Fiora, Darius, ect benefit greatly from this. You really wouldn't build it on the manaless champs because they dont use the mana portion and it;d be more cost effective to buy the normal pots, you wouldnt really build it on a mid lane champ because of how poor the mana regen is, which is what in some ways in important for mid, and you wouldnt waste the money on bot lane because you should have sustain if you are an ADC via your support, and the support would rather rush their GP10.


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Beaumains

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EndOmega View Post
If items that allow you to use items without buying them is OP then you might as well add the Sightstones in there with the Flask.

. . .

This item is great for top lanes because of the fact that there are actually alot of top lane champs who either dont have mana (Riven, Rumble, Vlad, Mundo, Garen, Tryndamere, Rengar, ect) or use very little mana (Teemo).

Champs like Fiora, Darius, ect benefit greatly from this. You really wouldn't build it on the manaless champs because they dont use the mana portion and it;d be more cost effective to buy the normal pots, you wouldnt really build it on a mid lane champ because of how poor the mana regen is, which is what in some ways in important for mid, and you wouldnt waste the money on bot lane because you should have sustain if you are an ADC via your support, and the support would rather rush their GP10.
Agreed on Sightstones. Not clear on that second point; why does the fact that a lot of no/nil mana champs go top often mean that Flask is a good investment?

I've personally found that Flask allows mages and carries to be more aggressive; 225g is relatively inexpensive, and the regen isn't that bad; especially on high-sustain champs. Though on those I'd probably prefer to skip it altogether, as I've become accustomed to going without pots after the initial purchase - that may change, they can be quite useful, and the primary reason I rarely got them before was the cost.


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Peligrad

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Crystalline flask is strictly more expensive and strictly worse than buying 4 potions (3 hp 1 mp) or (2hp 2mp) for your start.

So saying that it gives you a big advantage at the start is a farce...

It only become effective on champions that would typically keep buying potions through out their laning phase (and beyond).

This is typically champions that are mana hungry and have limited sustain...which honestly is very few.

With such a limited number of champions that are mana users and which don't have inherent healing...I don't understand why you would complain about this item...

As far as hp return in a team fight, you still gain 33% more hp using the ordinary hp potion...