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Nerf Vi Plz

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Gadalar

Senior Member

12-11-2012

If you can't understand why ult is an issue then there's no point in continuing this discussion since you don't understand what her ult is doing.


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TheTieThatBinds

Senior Member

12-11-2012

there is no issue. u have yet to even make a vaild claim to how it is an issue. All you said is that its over-powered. Nothing else.

Give some explanation why you think this way, and then maybe I will actually be able to hold a valid conversation with you, instead of you doing the hurt toddler routine and throwing a tantrum.

Yes, i understand what her ult is doing, but by no means is it exploiting anything...It locks onto a champ, knockes them up in the air, and then slams them into the ground, not unlike Nami's water prison. Other than that, it does nothing else. If you think it does, then explain what you think it does...as you have yet to.


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Gadalar

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
TheTieThatBinds:
All you said is that its over-powered.


I've said more than that, so please stop trolling.


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Spiku

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Gadalar:

Only directed at Spiku

4.) Not entirely 80% of the games played that include Vi, those Vi's even if they fully don't understand what they are doing are doing extremely well because they don't realize what's happening. As for those that do it's hard to counter her cause it really is.


Making up statistics is not useful in a pbe environment. You have no way of knowing that is accurate, even if you went off your own games. Most pbe games I play there are some bad players that I can farm heavily off of; if I recall, I've won every single nasus game I've played on pbe; this does not mean Nasus is 100% win rate overpowered. Every Vi I've seen today has done consistently badly; but I would not say this makes her a bad character; it is far too small a pool to consider.

However, when she is compared to the top laners I mentioned, and to be fair a good deal of the cast, she does not do well. It is not hard to counter her' she is easily kited, and she ha a telegraphed gap closer unless she is breaking out the ulti; and when you're in lane that ulti should be reserved for when they've flashed away or breaking their commit on you.

Jayce doesn't care about her at all: ranged poke + knockback if she goes in.
Nidalee can full poke and farm, and cannot be pinned in place, has sustain.
Darius wins on trades that even if Vi were to start getting the upperhand (re: 3 stacks), his bleed stacks provide a move speed to break past and retain dots. Only if you ulti during his ult will you come out on top
Riven is just you but with more movement and more reliable shields and a better cc in lane
Rengar can keep you slowed out of being able to do anything, with manaless harass, and has sustain
Surprisingly Garen beats out just from having the speed (which also leads to a silence) to keep off of you.
You have no sticking power to deal with singed; but then you can farm quite happily so it's no huge deal.
Shen can poke you with no real recompense, and has better sustain, but you can still farm if he doesn't lock the lane
Vlad stomps all over you for obvious reasons
Renekton has sustain, and better movement options; while you can trade between each other and both push the lane, this comes down to how you manage creeps more than anything else so you can keep your farm up, because he wins out. Becase he can win on the sustain he doesn't need to worry about the prolonged fight proc'ing multiple q's
Irelia; you both get to farm, no biggie; but Irelia is Irelia; if your team is cc heavy she does better, if hers isn't, you do better; the problem is she comes with sustain that you do not; and you cannot engage on her anyway due to reducing her below your health causes you to not be able to stay on her with the equilibrium.
Kennen: can freely harass you out of lane with no-mana poke and lightning rush as a reliable escape (usually + stun if you are on him)
Olaf: The trades aren't too bad given on his true damage hit you could q into him; but that means after the first few levels he will be poking you with his slow; largely it comes down to mana control, but on jungle ganks he has an advantage, and at 6 he doesn't care about your ulti of course; this one actually surprised me how Olaf came out on top.
Akali: Free poke, and if you do land a Q she will stealth through it; once she has spellvamp the lane is free to her
Teemo: Well, yeah, Teemo.

There's always skill mismatch, and jungler competance; but when it comes to her lane performance she does not shine particularly well.

The good news is she stomps trynd, ad sion, yi, and also nasus if you lock the lane to your side

edit: Given Gadalar doesn't care to respond to any points beside the fact that his stating that 80% of all Vi games go a certain way, there is little point to maintaining a discussion.


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Gadalar

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Spiku:
Making up statistics


30 games against Vi. 24 of those games those Vi's are either dominating or the main pillar holding their team cause of their damage.

6 games were they were not useful because they ragequit, dc'd, or didn't have proper masteries/runes on.

So yes totally made up statistics,

As for the rest I'm not taking into consideration 1 good Vi. Yet how easy accessible her build and damage become as well as why she's winning the match. You can't rely on build revolving around armor/HP cause W makes those builds null. You basically have to have the damage, the tankiness, and the cc to even have a chance to deal with Vi.

There's very few champs you wanna avoid doing trade offs early level no matter what lane.
There's even fewer that can do so much with just ~8k gold.

Vi is in that range where you can't mess with her period and it's insane to even bother. Her damage is extremely exploitable. She's basically as bad as any ganker with the added benefits of a gap closer and a suppression (that's now a stun).

Q through walls, REaa ignite wreck that person. (Top laners can easily gank mid but not many do so but those that do are getting kills through kill stealing/securing)

Just having 2 kills is a massive deal for Vi.


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TheTieThatBinds

Senior Member

12-11-2012

lol Gadalar, u still haven't explained how her Ult/dmg is exploitable. I'm not even sure on the terminology because there is no instance I know of that damage can be exploited.

You keep saying that but give no explanation on how or why its exploitable.

If you're going to keep using this argument, please provide explanations behind your reasoning...


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Zetaneuro

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Lets just nerf every new champion into the dirt. That way the strongest ones are always the same and we never have to think about changing the way we play.

We hate change,
kthx


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Gadalar

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
TheTieThatBinds:
lol Gadalar, u still haven't explained how her Ult/dmg is exploitable.


I have you just refuse to listen.


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TheTieThatBinds

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Gadalar:
1: Yes it's too large, especially when it moves you into melee range and suppresses said champion. The only ones that can actually do something about that ult is morg and shaco but outside of that haven't seen anyone else that can, even Fizz.
2: A good Vi build consists of high mobility
3. No her W was op. aa into W passive procs then use all your abilities, enjoy dying at level 2+ because of it
4. I hope the nerf was big enough.

Quote:
Gadalar:
@Spiku, PerfidiousAlbion, TheTieThatBinds

1.) Her ult places you in melee range, damages anything inbetween you and the main target, after you are in range the damage and suppression happens. You can try and run but if that ult targets a champion, you will get hit. This means that person will either die or from the damage after suppression or if you're lucky leave with less than 50% hp. Just about everyone is screwed when they get hit by that.

2.) I was 0/8/2 my last game only had shoes, brutalizer, zeal, phage. Yet once I got sheen after the 30 min mark cause of all the minion waves pushing to base I turned it around for us.

I went from 0/8/2 andt to 12/10/4 and we won the game cause I was starting to kill. My build was just Ninja Tabi, YB, TF, RH and I was wrecking their adc, support, ad mage, their vi, with less than 10k gold which was less gold than they all had.

3.) No that's what I'm implying, I'm saying her W passive into abilities deals an absurd amount of damage. Q applies it and a fully charged Q deals double damage, so if you can land a ranged Q to R the damage almost anyone's 50% hp because of the armor reduction and because denting blows is already applied, you R to suppress and E right after that's already wrecking anyone's hp.

Only directed at Spiku

4.) Not entirely 80% of the games played that include Vi, those Vi's even if they fully don't understand what they are doing are doing extremely well because they don't realize what's happening. As for those that do it's hard to counter her cause it really is.

You can silence her Q before it goes off and cancel it, but usually the ones that can silence can out damage her R/Ex2/Q combo.

At best is run away and hope to obliterate her with a gank before she gets a chance to do anything in retaliation because a Vi with 4 kills who can build some proper items on her will take someone down with her in a 1v5 or 2 cause it's happening.

I wish she wasn't this op and exploitable but she is. People building bruiser can be insanely annoying, people bulding pure ad with little hp are wrecking anyone they catch off their guard or tries to 1v1 her.



Quote:
Gadalar:
30 games against Vi. 24 of those games those Vi's are either dominating or the main pillar holding their team cause of their damage.

6 games were they were not useful because they ragequit, dc'd, or didn't have proper masteries/runes on.

So yes totally made up statistics,

As for the rest I'm not taking into consideration 1 good Vi. Yet how easy accessible her build and damage become as well as why she's winning the match. You can't rely on build revolving around armor/HP cause W makes those builds null. You basically have to have the damage, the tankiness, and the cc to even have a chance to deal with Vi.

There's very few champs you wanna avoid doing trade offs early level no matter what lane.
There's even fewer that can do so much with just ~8k gold.

Vi is in that range where you can't mess with her period and it's insane to even bother. Her damage is extremely exploitable. She's basically as bad as any ganker with the added benefits of a gap closer and a suppression (that's now a stun).

Q through walls, REaa ignite wreck that person. (Top laners can easily gank mid but not many do so but those that do are getting kills through kill stealing/securing)

Just having 2 kills is a massive deal for Vi.



Actually, no u haven't. I copied all your posts and no where do you explain what u mean by exploitable Ult/Damage. I'm not even sure you understand the word, "exploit"s, meaning.

Exploitable - to take advantage of (a person, situation, etc), esp unethically or unjustly for one's own ends
:to make the best use of

So, by your definition of what you are saying, Vi's Ult/Damage is unethically or unjustly used for one's own ends. Or its meant to make the best use of her Ult/Damage.

If you mean the latter, then yes, i agree with you, if you exploit her Ult/damage you can do really good, but you can with ANY other character also. Some will work better than others, but still...

So yes, please explain what you are meaning, as you have not yet.

You seem to like to point out exactly what her ult does though, which is funny lol. As for any kind of explanation of the exploitation involving her in anyway, is still non-existent.


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Gadalar

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
TheTieThatBinds:
If you mean the latter, then yes, i agree with you,


Funny that you agree cause you spent a couple of post doing nothing but harass me.


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