I have questions about the new Black Cleaver

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Exitusx

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

I should also say the recently nerfed Black Cleaver just for clarification. This is not a rant thread, just curious to see what other people think.

I am already aware about the item being good, but what do other players think that the item is meant to be aimed at? Who is supposed to use it? These are not rhetorical questions.

I just talked with a friend of mine who is decent enough, but he is fully convinced that Black Cleaver is solely meant for Bruisers. I disagreed by saying that it is meant for AD based casters like Talon or Pantheon, who can easily apply several charges of the armor shred to the enemy team, get the extra damage and armor pen, with CDR to boot. I am not saying bruisers can't use it, I can actually see AD based bruisers like Garen being very good with it. But my friend swears to god that it is only meant for bruisers, and gave me Olaf as an example, and that it is terrible on AD based casters. He also swears that players over 2k rating think the same thing he does.

I honestly am not the greatest player out there and I also don't pay as much attention to the politics in this game as he does. I just sort of look at the item and use my own common sense. But that doesn't mean I don't want to at least be careful.

So what do other people think about this? Because honestly, I just want to hear what other people think of it anyway.

EDIT:

Just in case people don't understand what Black Cleaver does, here are the stats.

+50 damage
+250 health
+10% CDR

Unique Passive: +10 armor pen
Unique Passive: Dealing physical damage reduces enemy armor by 6.25%, stacking up to 4 times (25% armor shred)

So for people that say that stacking 4 Black Cleavers will get you 100% armor shred and 40 armor pen, be aware that both are unique. You will still only get the +10 armor pen from multiple Black Cleavers. It may stack with another Brutalizer or other flat armor pen, it will not stack with another Black Cleaver. Also, getting another Black Cleaver will not increase how much it shreds, just how fast you apply the charges. I am not sure where people came up with the idea that it did. So stacking, say, 2 Black Cleavers will only result in a total of +100 damage, +500 health, +20% CDR, +10 armor penetration, and up to 4 stacks of 6.25% armor shred.


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Exitusx

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

bump.


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Zenmetsu Saseru

Senior Member

12-18-2012

You can use it on AD casters, but it would take somewhat longer to apply the full reduction. That aside, AD caster's output is by their abilities, which would give stacks, but wouldn't be as effective as someone who doesn't spend resources for their damage and have to wait to take advantage of the reduction. As a AD caster, you should wait for your friend to apply the reduction so you can lay out the damage unhindered and you can also have that slot free for something else.


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Beaumains

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Two things:

Runaan's Black Cleaver Corki, and Runaan's Black Cleaver Twitch. Team has armor? What armor? What team?


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Beaumains

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Generally speaking (more seriously), BC is an option if you have a relatively heavy AD comp - e.g. 2 strong AD champions, or 3 AD champions. If you only have one AD champ (bruiser, fighter, assassin, or carry), you're generally better off getting LW. The only exception I can immediately think of may be Warwick.


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ToozieMoMurderer

Member

12-19-2012

Your forgot Garen benefits greatly from the new BC.


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DarkenDragon

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenmetsu Saseru View Post
You can use it on AD casters, but it would take somewhat longer to apply the full reduction. That aside, AD caster's output is by their abilities, which would give stacks, but wouldn't be as effective as someone who doesn't spend resources for their damage and have to wait to take advantage of the reduction. As a AD caster, you should wait for your friend to apply the reduction so you can lay out the damage unhindered and you can also have that slot free for something else.
im sorry but ad casters are the ones that apply the stacks the fastest.

most ad casters will have such low cooldowns that with the increased cooldown reduction, you'll get more damage out of this than anyone else

also the passive shred is not unique, but the debuff can only appear once, so you cant reduce a champion's armor below 25% with this item no matter how many you or your team has.

this was made specificly for the AD casters now as was mentioned by the development team.

many of them are able to apply the full stacks within 1 combo and are able to apply it again,

most bruisers actually dont even do physical damage on their abilities, they're mostly magical damage. the ones Im talking about are like sion or volibear.

This item is best used on AD carries that do nothing but physical damage.

heres a good checklist of what you should think about to determine if you should buy it

1. does your champion have AD ratios?
2. are your champion's abilities physical damage?
3. do you cast your abilities as soon as they come off cooldown often?
4. do your abilities do multiple points of damage?

if you answered yes to the first 3, then this is a good item for you, if you also answered yes to the final point, then you probably should make this a core item


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masterdragon481

Senior Member

12-20-2012

I have a related question. I made a new post about it instead of searching first (shame on me). Is there a reason to ever get last whisper now? I can't add, thought BC was 30% armor shred before, but even at 25% with all the other stuff it gives, is last whisper worth getting?