Morello You Got Your Wish...

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Ralik098

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuddenlyPony View Post
Talon, Pantheon, Kat. All assassins and all of them have no %hp abilities. Irelia has true damage, a 1:1 AD scaling gap-closer with a 6s cooldown that refreshes if it kills the target, a four-shot piercing skillshot ult that has a 2.6x AD+2x AP damage potential per enemy hit, Equilibrium Strike rewards you for not being at full health by giving you a stun instead of a slow, meaning that when the carry tries to attack you you hit them with ES and punch even more damage into them that they can't respond to, and she has built-in tenacity.... Yeah, her kit DEFINITELY doesn't have assassin written all over it, and her scaling is DEFINITELY weak. That was sarcasm, if you couldn't tell.
Her scalings are weak.


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Ordo Irelius

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuddenlyPony View Post
Talon, Pantheon, Kat. All assassins and all of them have no %hp abilities. Irelia has true damage, a 1:1 AD scaling gap-closer with a 6s cooldown that refreshes if it kills the target, a four-shot piercing skillshot ult that has a 2.6x AD+2x AP damage potential per enemy hit, Equilibrium Strike rewards you for not being at full health by giving you a stun instead of a slow, meaning that when the carry tries to attack you you hit them with ES and punch even more damage into them that they can't respond to, and she has built-in tenacity.... Yeah, her kit DEFINITELY doesn't have assassin written all over it, and her scaling is DEFINITELY weak. That was sarcasm, if you couldn't tell.
Look at talon and kat's scaling, then look at Irelia's... Yeh...
And since you want to talk about Irelia's scaling, let's take a look at it.

1. Ult with 2.6 AD ratio and 2.0 AP ratio if hit with all 4 blades. AP ratio we can ignore. 2.6 AD ratio looks great on paper, but if you think about it, Irelia does not have the luxury to build much flat AD and pen because ALL OF HER DAMAGE IS SUSTAINED, MEANING SHE NEEDS TO BUILD TANK ITEMS TO SURVIVE FOR MORE THAN 3 SECONDS. It also takes 2 seconds to get all four blades out.

2. 1.0 AD ratio on Q that procs on hit effects. Once again, looks alright on paper, but we have to remember that she cannot spam this every time its off CD due to it being her tool to stick. 1.0 AD ratio isn't all that great either, if you factor in the low base damage of this skill (140 at max level). Don't get me wrong, it's a great skill, just not a great assassin skill.

3. Hiten Style, no direct scaling what so ever. Scales with AS, but once again, sustained damage, meaning she needs to build defense, meaning she can't get full offense, meaning she cannot assassinate.

4. Equilibrium strike, 0.5 AP ratio, not much to look at here.

So basically, Irelia has no innate tank steroid or escapes, no huge ratio burst, relies solely on sustained damage. Assassins can be squishy because they can do their burst in 1-2 seconds, killing a person, then GTFO fast. Irelia cannot, thus does not work as an assassin.

PS: Panth was a great assassin. Not so much after his nerf though.


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honreject

Member

12-12-2012

Too bad irelia is still OP because her kit is fundamentally flawed.

Stop whining ***.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralik098 View Post
Are you the same Hashinshin that cried so much about AD casters not getting help with this patch.
and next week when brutalizer and BC get **** on with nerfs do we then complain that AD casters got no help again?

I forgot a single overpowered oversight was the redemption of an entire class. I suppose when DFG was OP you said Leblanc was perfectly balanced and nobody had anything to complain about?


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SuddenlyPony

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ordo Irelius View Post
So basically, Irelia has no innate tank steroid or escapes, no huge ratio burst, relies solely on sustained damage. Assassins can be squishy because they can do their burst in 1-2 seconds, killing a person, then GTFO fast. Irelia cannot, thus does not work as an assassin.
Let's look at the full list of non-Irelia Assassins, I just mentioned three that don't have %HP abilities, since that was the one item that person was claiming was essential for a successful assassin in current live:

Ahri, Akali, Eve, Fizz, Kass, Kat, Kha, LeBonk, Lee, Noct, Mantheon, Poppy, Shaco, Talon, TF, Vayne, Xin, Zed

Let's drop the %HP champs... that gets rid of Eve, Fizz, Poppy, Vayne, and Zed.
Let's drop the remaining ranged champs... that gets rid of Ahri, LeBonk, and TF.
So, non-%HP melee assassins who aren't Irelia: Akali, Katarina, Kassadin, Kha'Zix, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Pantheon, Shaco, Talon, Xin Zhao.

I've never seen a single one of them (except Kat, sorta) three-shot an enemy from 100% when they weren't grossly overfed in comparison. They work best for killing when you ambush or pursue a low-health runner, not going "hurrdurr I'm going to walk up to the full-health enemy and try to bash her face in without doing any prep work." But you seem to think Assassins should work that way. I know Hashinshin does, I've read his rants. Assassination is an art, a skill, it's not simple brawling. It takes time to set up, and a bit of luck to pull off.

tl;dr: Assassins, when played as assassins, are gankers, not front-line fighters, and any attempt to play them as the latter should either involve them having amazing cc abilities to make it worthwhile to not build damage or them dying.

Now, if you'll excuse me, my bed calls. Working the graveyard shift = sleep during day, and I've wasted a few potential sleep-hours this morning reading this thread (and I did read all of it) and skimming the linked threads.


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Ralik098

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
and next week when brutalizer and BC get **** on with nerfs do we then complain that AD casters got no help again?

I forgot a single overpowered oversight was the redemption of an entire class. I suppose when DFG was OP you said Leblanc was perfectly balanced and nobody had anything to complain about?
Nah, I don't cry OP on something new everyday like you do.


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Ordo Irelius

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuddenlyPony View Post
Let's look at the full list of non-Irelia Assassins, I just mentioned three that don't have %HP abilities, since that was the one item that person was claiming was essential for a successful assassin in current live:

Ahri, Akali, Eve, Fizz, Kass, Kat, Kha, LeBonk, Lee, Noct, Mantheon, Poppy, Shaco, Talon, TF, Vayne, Xin, Zed

Let's drop the %HP champs... that gets rid of Eve, Fizz, Poppy, Vayne, and Zed.
Let's drop the remaining ranged champs... that gets rid of Ahri, LeBonk, and TF.
So, non-%HP melee assassins who aren't Irelia: Akali, Katarina, Kassadin, Kha'Zix, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Pantheon, Shaco, Talon, Xin Zhao.

I've never seen a single one of them (except Kat, sorta) three-shot an enemy from 100% when they weren't grossly overfed in comparison. They work best for killing when you ambush or pursue a low-health runner, not going "hurrdurr I'm going to walk up to the full-health enemy and try to bash her face in without doing any prep work." But you seem to think Assassins should work that way. I know Hashinshin does, I've read his rants. Assassination is an art, a skill, it's not simple brawling. It takes time to set up, and a bit of luck to pull off.

tl;dr: Assassins, when played as assassins, are gankers, not front-line fighters, and any attempt to play them as the latter should either involve them having amazing cc abilities to make it worthwhile to not build damage or them dying.

Now, if you'll excuse me, my bed calls. Working the graveyard shift = sleep during day, and I've wasted a few potential sleep-hours this morning reading this thread (and I did read all of it) and skimming the linked threads.
A lot of champions on your list are not assassins, but merely tagged as assassins. True assassins are able to insta-gib carries from 100-0, then somehow gtfo, that's pretty much their definition in moba games.

From the top of my head, assassins that can 100-0 carries in ~3 seconds if not behind (or ridiculously fed) then have some sort of escape: poppy, fizz, kat, akali, evelynn, LB, katarina, talon, kha'zix, rengar (maybe, not sure on this one), and zed (not sure on this one either).

PS: Glad you took the time to read through everything though. Really appreciated it.


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tist

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Kinda glad. Irela was one of those champions that won nearly every trade..


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That Person

Senior Member

12-12-2012

bump


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Teeird

Senior Member

12-12-2012

.