Fix the ELO system

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IS149080d6605e20d28653a

Senior Member

12-16-2012

hmm, actioly i have a replay that would fit in wel into what im trying to tell you.
Im doing bad there, but there is player doing good, and one doing exeptionaly bad.What im trying to change is them being punished equaly for loosing.lemme just find a site to share files.


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IS149080d6605e20d28653a

Senior Member

12-16-2012

Dont even bother looking at how i play, becouse i did realy bad this game.
No need to tell me i did bad when i pretty much miss all my skillshots.

But there are other 2 players that also lost and according to you they are equal.
Both of them are considered THIS elo.
Here is what i mean:
First pick chooses trynd, we asked him not to, he asked why. So we told him he is shutdown completely by any cc, and had bad ganks/ unsafe jungling.
He told us to shut up and locked.

Than he completely failed all game long.During whole duration of the game he hasnt done any good at all.
Bad pick, and bad game play.He died like 3 times simply by recalling in retarded places.

And there is graves, who did good pick for the situation, farmed well, picked up kills whenever possible, he could position himself and al that stuff .And he lost, loosing same amount of elo as that trynd.
I think trynd should be more severly punished, prove me how those 2 player were playing equaly bad, and deserved to loose elo equaly.And what more could that graves rly do to win, with his team being so much weaker , melee assasin mid , vs lux, and melee ad carry in jungle - and repeatedly geting cought in stupid situations.

http://rapidshare.com/files/1305708239/przyklad.lrf


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Selcopa

Senior Member

12-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacyf View Post
Dont even bother looking at how i play, becouse i did realy bad this game.
No need to tell me i did bad when i pretty much miss all my skillshots.

But there are other 2 players that also lost and according to you they are equal.
Both of them are considered THIS elo.
Here is what i mean:
First pick chooses trynd, we asked him not to, he asked why. So we told him he is shutdown completely by any cc, and had bad ganks/ unsafe jungling.
He told us to shut up and locked.

Than he completely failed all game long.During whole duration of the game he hasnt done any good at all.
Bad pick, and bad game play.He died like 3 times simply by recalling in retarded places.

And there is graves, who did good pick for the situation, farmed well, picked up kills whenever possible, he could position himself and al that stuff .And he lost, loosing same amount of elo as that trynd.
I think trynd should be more severly punished, prove me how those 2 player were playing equaly bad, and deserved to loose elo equaly.And what more could that graves rly do to win, with his team being so much weaker , melee assasin mid , vs lux, and melee ad carry in jungle - and repeatedly geting cought in stupid situations.

http://rapidshare.com/files/1305708239/przyklad.lrf
Please upload the replay to leaguereplays.com, not a big rapid share person.

The point of going the replay is to determine if there was anything you could do to turn the game into a win, could Froggen win this game if he was playing in your place? Could a 1900? 1600? ect ect.

I'm guessing you are graves in this game? Id be happy to point out how you could of influenced the game more and possibly won the game.

As far as "why do we deserve the same amount of elo lost" Its a part of the system, over time, you will win games that he is not capable of winning, had you won this game the same would apply, he gets a short term boost but he will still lose games that you will win.

The reason you both deserve elo lost is because you lost the match. Yes its solo queue, but its a team game, over time when you eliminate the noise of the system your elo will represent your skill level.

Finally Id ask, what elo are you at, what elo do you feel you belong at.


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IS149080d6605e20d28653a

Senior Member

12-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
Please upload the replay to leaguereplays.com, not a big rapid share person.

The point of going the replay is to determine if there was anything you could do to turn the game into a win, could Froggen win this game if he was playing in your place? Could a 1900? 1600? ect ect.

I'm guessing you are graves in this game? Id be happy to point out how you could of influenced the game more and possibly won the game.

As far as "why do we deserve the same amount of elo lost" Its a part of the system, over time, you will win games that he is not capable of winning, had you won this game the same would apply, he gets a short term boost but he will still lose games that you will win.

The reason you both deserve elo lost is because you lost the match. Yes its solo queue, but its a team game, over time when you eliminate the noise of the system your elo will represent your skill level.

Finally Id ask, what elo are you at, what elo do you feel you belong at.
In post above yours im saying im not graves, yet you make an assumption i am graves so:

a) you Dont even bother reading my post.

But you know there is graves so:

b)you dont understand what you are reading which implies you are retarded.

Either way no point discussing with you.


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matrinox

Senior Member

12-16-2012

Pacyf, you're looking at this wrong. It's not only you who has to put up with bad team mates; everybody does. Including the enemy team.

When I first did ranked, I got up to 1350, then queued with a friend who brought me down to 1100. When I wasn't playing with him, it felt like half my games had DC's. I remember the enemy team never had any. Just the luck I had. This season I ended up getting my first ranked game where the enemy team had a DC. I didn't deserve the ELO but I got it.

That's the point. After a lot of games, sooner or later those games with rages and DC's and "noobs" will average out so that you experience the advantages and disadvantages of it. You'll be with the team that sucks and you'll be against the team that sucks. But most of the time, you should be with people of the same skill level.

And just cuz you have DC's or "noobs" doesn't mean you can't carry. It's still possible. Ward up, catch people off gaurd. If you really are 1600 elo material, you should be able to win 75% of the time against 1200 elo. To reiterate, bad players play for both sides of the team. And if you can't capitalize on the enemy's mistake, then I'm sorry but you really are just 1200 elo. Just admit it and try to get better. Don't rage at a system that ain't broke. The quicker you admit it, the sooner you can start improving.

Again, bad players play for both sides of the game. You just notice your side more.


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IS149080d6605e20d28653a

Senior Member

12-16-2012

Yes matrinox i know it.
ITs true in regard of winning percentage, but i want those bad players to be punished for being bad,
and those who pick new skin fiddle for ranked, just becouse they want to play with that skin and DONT care, i want them to loose more elo than me, they dont care afteral anyways!

My last few defeats could be described this way:
There are new fancy skins on fiddlesticks and katarina.
Enemy team rolled katarina , my team rolled fiddle.
My team picked squishy top, and single target melee mid + that first-time-fidle in jungle, so there was no power in the world that would prevent katarina form scoring triplekill at some point.
I was suporting , my ad carry got to like 7:0 .Game got to a point when teamfights occur.
We are winning untill at some point i miss my disable on katarina , or she get smart enough to not get close to me - and she got quadra kill becouse my team got picks that completely cant stop her from reseting. Game over.

Could have i been better? Sure.
Could 2100 elo support win this? probably yes.
Was i equaly responsible as my team taking bad picks? I dont think so.
Its not a team game- not in solo q. I will never play with this team again, and i cant affect those idiots in any way, even warding/ pinging wont help as they ignore it .
its my individual score thats affected by this defeat, so it should be somehow dependant on my individual performance in this particular game.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

12-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacyf View Post
In post above yours im saying im not graves, yet you make an assumption i am graves so:

a) you Dont even bother reading my post.

But you know there is graves so:

b)you dont understand what you are reading which implies you are retarded.

Either way no point discussing with you.
I was on my phone at the time, i saw you posted to rapid share, which is why i asked you to move it.

You never mentioned your EU name so techincally you can be anyone, I assumed graves because you talked so highly of that player. I am about to review the game I will offer you some tips later.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

12-16-2012

So here's my review of the game, things I thought you could of done a little differently, Ill post my report in just a second.

Probably woulda played Taric over Leona, but leona is fine.

Protect your jungler. First blood is 100% your fault.
Engage at level 2 especially when you have the level advantage, also get E first if when you have that level advantage.
Block that pull, save heal
Good double kill total, clear the wave and recall(4 minutes in)
Just a little slow on that.
5:10 you are way stronger than them you should instantly be looking for a fight, get some presence in lane and zone them from CS.
6:25 i dont know what you are doing, get your butt into the laneand zone.
6:45 bad sync with your jungle, get some awareness, EZ has no flash, kill him all day.
7:25 go take golems if ur just gonna stand there. make the call
7:40 drop exhaust on ez IMMEDIATELY, you gotta know you are strong enough to drop him there. if you exhaust right away, thats a free kill with no trade. 1 for 1 is NOT okay there. also should be popping your health regen items when you engage like that.
9:10 your carry recalss, you should recall too OR, roam mid, take the free XP and ward the brush for akali
9:45 WAY too early, its not a mechanical issue, that was a poor decision, wait 2 seconds for your carry to get there THEN go in. Right idea though, you want to fight alot.
10:15 Your cooldowns are up, FIGHT you gotta play leona aggressively when you are ahead.
10:50 Dont roam mid? DOMINATE you lane, you are ahead but you arent winning that much, CRUSH your lane completely zone them out and make them a few levels behind before you take the tower.
11:30 LANE PRESENCE you are way out of position, you know the jungler is down, you know you win the matchup, JUMP ON THEM. Dont be afraid of the pull.
12:15 A bit sloppy but you got it. a little cleaner and you dont die to hecarim, this things add up.
14:20 not bad dragon take, you can be a little more aggressive to defend from lux ult but it was fine
15:05 you gotta know lux is gonna try to snipe that, zone her out or kill her(you personally do it)
15:50 Dive that with the minions there
16:10 you get an easy free kill, you shoulda intiated earlier
16:30 graves was waiting for you to initiate, you can reach that.
16:45 Trynd doesnt die if you iniate earlier.
17:44 you are way behind in exp for how much you are dominating the lane, need beter presence
18:00 you get the kill, your mechanics were slightly off, you woulda gotten a double kill if you executed better
18:55 Late again but you got it.
19:10 woulda recalled but cant always control your teammates.
20:10 stop afking and get red for your graves.
21:10 on one hand i dont hate the dragon take, i naturally graviate towards heping my teammates, you can get dragon later
21:35 this dive is ALREADY too deep, you need to be aware of your teammates, if you back off your team doesnt go in and get smoked.
22:35 Build more HP.
23:05 I woulda ultid to save akali.
23:25 you gotta know once you miss (possibly before) that you cant kill irelia there. just a bad decision.
24:20 I just noticed graves again, you should be folloiwng him around protecting him
24:47 again you get aced but you are still up about 2k gold after those kills, they're about to cut into that.
25:20 more wards.
25:52 Pink on baron, having more wards lets you cover their jungle, that is important at this stage.
27:05 Silly, get graves out of there, let trynd die.
28:15 woulda jumped back on them when you see graves coming back, you can blow one up.
28:50 annoying when that happens, but dont forget about all the free kills blitz has been giving up.
29:38 okay I see you miss your E alot, obviously you already know try to hit that, but what you arent doing is following up with an ultimate, your ulti has a longer range than your E, you can still hit both of them running away with it and pick up a double kill there.
30:25 bad ward at blue, put it at baron
30:45 notice hec at bot lane? rally the team together for a forced fight
31:00 so you hit both with an ulti, but they were never in the fight, you should save your ulti for later once they're in the middle of the fight
31:30 you are just way out of poisiton when jax is getting dove.
32:10 you still are up almost 3k this is your game to lose.
32:40 More wards.
33:25 ulti ez after the jump, he has no flash, get the kill.
33:40 too far away from graves.
34:00 bad positioning relative to graves.
34:30 ulti first, stun all 3, miniumum 2 kills there.
34:47 You are way behind still you should be level 15 or 16 at this point. preferably 16 for that 3rd ulti point.
36:55 The one time i wouldnt of gone with graves, stick with your team at least protect them.
38:25 Good job, inhib, recall, force baron.
39:15 dont recall
40:00 bad ward drop, unneccessary, drop a pink at baron and ward their jungle more aggressively.
40:40 Inhib.
41:20 since trynd went bot, back off baron, take free inhib, you gotta call the team off there take the free inhib tower, bait the baron you can win a 4v4 there.
43:15 work on your counter strikes better, you can put out more damage if you execute turn arounds better.
44:45 you execute your skills better that works out better for you.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

12-17-2012

So overall watching the game, I definitely feel if i played support for you there, I could of won, was trynd a bad player? Sure but you REALLY screwed him over right off the bat, there were so many occassions where he was 1 hit away from killing players, Had you helped him at level 1, first off it woulda been a 3v2 you woulda easily gotten 2-1 or even 2-0, trynd would of had a better early game and been stronger. He easily could have gotten another 4-5 kills throughout the game, that would have been a game changer right there.

This game was easily winnable had JUST YOU played better, your team was ahead in gold the whole game, there was no intentional feeding, alot of 1200 elo play but thats what I think the bracket was?

As far as Graves. Did he play good? Yeah kind of, he played better than the rest of you, did he deserve to win? Ehh not really, there were tons of mistakes that he made, from simple mechanical, item selection, and awareness. Had he played a little better he easily could of carried the game too, but he made plenty of mistakes.

Did trynd play the worst? I mean, I could agree that he was the worst player, he also could of played better and won the game, but thats the thing, literally every single player on your team could have influenced the game more AND WON if they were just a little better. So I really cant say that Trynd deserves to be punished more than the rest of you, when all of you had the potential to win that game, and you blew it.

EDIT: I uploaded this to LeagueReplays.com, Feel free to offer other suggestions besides what I said, or feel free to critique my critique, I felt this was pretty fair overall but im open to other suggestions.
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/2607565/


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IS149080d6605e20d28653a

Senior Member

12-17-2012

seriously, are you mentaly retarded or education in USA is like this?

I said to compare graves and trynd not me, since i played bad this game.
And anyways, you had already your opinion formed before watching this game, there its easy to adjust facts that fit it.Nothing suprising from you here, keep on troling troll.