Omen vs. Thornmail: Are you the carry or a meat shield?

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Lost R

Senior Member

03-26-2014

No, you can't pick both. The tanks don't count.

This is something that comes up a lot during a game if armor is suddenly in high demand. Should you get Thornmail or Randuin's Omen?

Well, what role are you? Are you the jungler, a tank, a bruiser, a carry, or a mage? What AD champion has grieved you?

Again, this hardly counts towards tanks, who are pretty much expected to build both (especially Rammus) first, depending on the enemy champions. But carries, mages, and the fragile supports? Why get a Thornmail over the Omen?

The way I figure it, the Thornmail is better on champions who are expected to stand and fight in a war of attrition or sponge up a ton of damage, and the damage factor from the passive only comes into play if the enemy is basic attacking you, which will only happen if that's their major method of attacking (Sion, Udyr, Vayne, Trundle), or you've taunted them (which only three champions can do, one of which is barely ever played). Champions like Riven, Fiora, Lee Sin and Yasuo do most of their damage through their skills, and are more liable to open up with those first before resorting to basic attacks because their skills are on cooldown or they're short on mana or silenced.

Speaking towards carries specifically, most will invest more in damage items than anything else. At most, they will only buy one tank item, two if you count Ninja Tabi or the Mercury Treads. They aren't expected or guaranteed to outlast the enemy in a fight (Lifestealing through the pain doesn't count), and if they are caught alone in a multi-champion ambush the first and most logical course of action is to get the hell out of there.

This is where I prize the Omen more for carries than the Thornmail. Thornmail's passive only works for outlasting the enemy, but it does nothing if you aren't sticking around long enough for that to happen or you have two or more champions punching you in the face at the same time. The Omen, while having thirty less armor, has five hundred bonus health, a unique passive that slows the attack and movement speed of an enemy when they hit you with a basic attack, and an active that slows all enemies around you for a second or two while you make your escape. It's effectively a tank item tailor made for carries and other fragile champions.

That's why it irks me whenever someone on the team says for everyone to build Thornmails when there's only one tank on the team, and the rest are not expected and ill-advised to try and outlast the enemy in a full on slugfest.


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The5lacker

Senior Member

03-26-2014

Thornmail and Randuin's actually have an entertaining bit of anti-synergy: In addition to making you an even less appealing target for every autoattack based champion ever, the attack speed slow reduces the amount of damage you reflect with Thornmail.


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Vuther

Senior Member

03-26-2014

Yeahhhhh... Omen's is pretty much the superior item...some percentage of the time that's really ****ing huge because I never build it on about anyone. Slow too useful.


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Kellory

Senior Member

03-26-2014

I actually like building Thornmail on Galio. I tend to run Mp5 seals, so I like the extra armor later and I generally have a decent amount of health from other items.

Also, I like adding injury to my insults.


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Lost R

Senior Member

03-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by The5lacker View Post
Thornmail and Randuin's actually have an entertaining bit of anti-synergy: In addition to making you an even less appealing target for every autoattack based champion ever, the attack speed slow reduces the amount of damage you reflect with Thornmail.
For that matter, Frozen Heart is a greater offender, creating an AURA that decreases enemy attack speed. Not sure if Omen and the Frozen Heart can stack their effects.

Still, if you're picking up more than one of these items, chances are you're not concerned about how much damage you'll be reflecting back with Thornmail, or you're Rammus, Taric or Leona, where stacking absurd amounts of armor to increase your damage is just par for the course.


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Vuther

Senior Member

03-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost R View Post
For that matter, Frozen Heart is a greater offender, creating an AURA that decreases enemy attack speed. Not sure if Omen and the Frozen Heart can stack their effects.

Still, if you're picking up more than one of these items, chances are you're not concerned about how much damage you'll be reflecting back with Thornmail, or you're Rammus, Taric or Leona, where stacking absurd amounts of armor to increase your damage is just par for the course.
Armour does not increase Leona's damage. It instead grants her even more armour from her W.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

03-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost R View Post
Not sure if Omen and the Frozen Heart can stack their effects.
They stack. It's multiplicative, but the passives stack the 20% and 15% to be worth 32% AS slow. The active and the aura hit 48% AS slow. I don't think that Randuin's passive and active stack, but if they did, with Frozen Heart, it would hit 55.8% AS slow.


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Lost R

Senior Member

03-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMyBassCannon View Post
They stack. It's multiplicative, but the passives stack the 20% and 15% to be worth 32% AS slow. The active and the aura hit 48% AS slow. I don't think that Randuin's passive and active stack, but if they did, with Frozen Heart, it would hit 55.8% AS slow.
Holy ****, they turned Nasus into an item!


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

03-26-2014

Or Malphite


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Vuther

Senior Member

03-26-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMyBassCannon View Post
They stack. It's multiplicative, but the passives stack the 20% and 15% to be worth 32% AS slow. The active and the aura hit 48% AS slow. I don't think that Randuin's passive and active stack, but if they did, with Frozen Heart, it would hit 55.8% AS slow.
They removed Randuin's active slowing AS a while ago.


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