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@Morello, IF you had your time again, how would you redesign DARIUS??

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ROKAF JE

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Morello:
We'd go back to the original idea. I should dev log Darius' development sometime.

Originally, Darius had 7 stacks of hemorrhage and the ramp-up on how much the ult did was much more stark (low stacks were terrible, full stacks was what you see now - and it only did true damage at max). This wasn't perfect, but it's much closer to the design intent; let me explain that and then you'll know where I'd like to go with him in the future.

For Darius, his gameplay should be about building stacks and keeping them up over a longer period of time. When he reaches a threshhold that's actually difficult to reach, then his ultimate should rip you in half. I'd also like an ability for him to spread stacks for real insanity with this design. Let me give you my idea as it stands today;

The play pattern is that Darius wants to get to 10 stacks to just murder people hard. The counter-play should be to get him off you at least long enough for stacks to fall off. The longer the fight, the more advantageous to Darius. Ratios and stats changed to favor lower AD, tankier build to support this.

Hemmorhage: Changed to maximum 10 stacks on a target. DoT damage adjusted to match, with something like 5 now = 7 in this model. All skills interact with # of hemmorhage stacks on the target. Auto-attacks and skills apply 1 stack.

Blood-Soaked Blade A slight redo on the Q, this still does PBAOE damage and adds a stack of bleed. Any targets hit have their hemmhorage stacks shared with that target's allies.

Crippling Strike No longer gets shorter cooldown with hemmorhage, but instead increases the slow % and duration per stack. At max, this would get to something like 80% for 5 seconds. At 0 stacks, 0% slow, but still an AA reset.

Apprehend Unsure, but maybe just numbers.

Noxian Guillotine Does (small) base damage, +(OK) AD ratio. Base damage and armor penetration (10% per stack) increase per stack of Hemmorage. Ult STILL RESETS, as ten stacks should not be a particularly common occurance, and should be the state Darius is trying to achieve (and the state enemies are trying to prevent).

So, this would require testing etc, but it captures the spirit of Darius that matches the original intent of something that significantly ramps over time, and the gameplay revolves around preventing Darius from reaching short-term critical mass in an engagement, while he's trying to set up limited windows for a kill. The psychology should exemplify tension, as every move he can just hold on to for a little longer has greater power when used - either getting greedy by waiting too long or getting zealous by using things too early will cause Darius to miss his chance to beat someone in a fight.



Good luck without Frozen mallet, Zephyr, Swiftness boots, MS quints, Relentless and Tenacious.


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VG Bustamoov

Senior Member

02-09-2013

As it stands right now, Darius can almost 1 shot any laning enemy at level 6. The Ult is obscene, to say the least. I've seen Darius Ult on people with no stacks on them and take well over 60% health.

Typical play for Darius is:

Auto, Apprehend, Ult (1 dead)
Auto, Auto, Ult (Double kill)
Auto, Ult (Triple Kill)
Auto, Ult (Quadra kill)
Ult (Pentakill)

To play Darius..simply lay your face on the keyboard so your nose presses and 'R' and take a nap. You will wake up with a KDA of 25/0


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jinxedchef

Senior Member

02-16-2013

I really don't get how this guy has been released for 9 months and hasn't been fixed.


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Danage

Senior Member

02-20-2013

A Band-Aid solution to a core design fault... Darius nerfs incoming!


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sneakymastamind

Junior Member

02-20-2013

Quote:
Morello:
I think the assumption is that he just is expected to get to 10 stacks to be effective. My expectation is that he can sometimes get to 10 stacks, but can hit a breakpoint where something is good to use before that, if he needs it faster. Basically, to create this, you can't let him reach max every time, but max should be obscene.

morello question so if i read an a bility right if you hit one enemy its puts hemorhage on his allies as well? so all these responses about how can you get ten stacks is easy go to the tankies dude get your en stacks asap and ult for the love of god??? unless i read this wrong


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Danage

Senior Member

02-24-2013

hmmmm...


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Ertus

Junior Member

03-03-2013

I really like the sound of these changes. They would make Darius very interesting to play, and fairly unique. It seems like he would get countered even harder by ranged now though, since his 'w' would be less effective until higher bleed levels, allowing them to escape and wait out the bleed duration much easier, and since he can't finish them off as quick, what with his ult doing less damage until he's been able to hit them for quite a while (which he can't do because he can't stick to them as easily).

I was thinking of a few changes to him that would be cool, before i read this. After seeing these proposed changes, i think my ideas would work even better, alongside them.

First of all, if Darius is going to have a much longer ramp up time to full effectiveness, he would need ways to get his bleed on people quicker. I think this could be done by making his 'e' apply hemorrhage. It wouldn't need to do damage itself, just put his bleed on whoever gets hit by it.

I also think it would encourage counter play, reduce his weakness to range and make things more interesting if his pull had a longer range, but had travel time and was telegraphed. At the moment, its basically instant and if the enemy is in range when he casts it, their going to get pulled in. It would be better if he did something like throw his axe out and then leave it at the maximum range for like 0.5 - 1 second, giving people time to get out of it. And maybe he telegraphs that he's going to do it by drawing his axe back behind him or something. This drawback is counteracted by the ability having a bit longer range.

The other idea I had, I am not as sure about. It would be cool, but it might make him too good against ranged. Basically, I think his ulti should have really low base damage, that doesn't start scaling up till you get to 5 stacks of hemorrhage. If you use it on someone below that amount, it does really low damage but it only has like a 10 second cooldown. This way, it basically becomes a leap that you can only target on enemy champions, meaning he can get into a fight easier, but he still can't escape one. Once you hit 5 stacks, it starts scaling up for each stack, all the way up to the 10th stack. So maybe at 5 stacks, each stack does 20% extra damage and armor pen, up to 100% of both at 10 stacks. When you use it at this point, it gets its normal 120-80 second cooldown if it didn't kill someone and refresh if it did. So basically, 0-4 stacks its a low damage, low cooldown gap closer. At 5-10 stacks its essentially what it currently is on live. The visual for hemorrhage might change to something like, 1-4 stacks is the blood drops. At 5 stacks the blood drops disappear and the bleeding skull appears over them. 6-9 stacks would be another 4 blood drops with the skull. At 10 stacks, the drops disappear again and the skull visual changes somehow to be really noticable. Glows really brightly or something maybe.


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Mynt

Senior Member

03-03-2013

If Darius were a raid boss, how would you fight him?

By rotating his aggro, so that he never gets to full stacks. So can Darius apply 5 stacks of hemorrhage within a 5 second window? If so, then that's a problem. It means you'd need 3 tanks, or to be blowing healer cooldowns constantly.

My suggestion: reduce the duration of Hemorrhage to 2.5 seconds. Make it meaningful which person Darius is choosing to focus. Consider that this is simultaneously a buff and a nerf, and the slow ticking DoT of doom that scores a kill long after Darius is dead feels terrible for both players involved. Simply increasing the rate at which the DoT ticks would make these kills feel deserved.


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Zalendor

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Morello:
We'd go back to the original idea. I should dev log Darius' development sometime.

Originally, Darius had 7 stacks of hemorrhage and the ramp-up on how much the ult did was much more stark (low stacks were terrible, full stacks was what you see now - and it only did true damage at max). This wasn't perfect, but it's much closer to the design intent; let me explain that and then you'll know where I'd like to go with him in the future.

For Darius, his gameplay should be about building stacks and keeping them up over a longer period of time. When he reaches a threshhold that's actually difficult to reach, then his ultimate should rip you in half. I'd also like an ability for him to spread stacks for real insanity with this design. Let me give you my idea as it stands today;

The play pattern is that Darius wants to get to 10 stacks to just murder people hard. The counter-play should be to get him off you at least long enough for stacks to fall off. The longer the fight, the more advantageous to Darius. Ratios and stats changed to favor lower AD, tankier build to support this.

Hemmorhage: Changed to maximum 10 stacks on a target. DoT damage adjusted to match, with something like 5 now = 7 in this model. All skills interact with # of hemmorhage stacks on the target. Auto-attacks and skills apply 1 stack.

Blood-Soaked Blade A slight redo on the Q, this still does PBAOE damage and adds a stack of bleed. Any targets hit have their hemmhorage stacks shared with that target's allies.

Crippling Strike No longer gets shorter cooldown with hemmorhage, but instead increases the slow % and duration per stack. At max, this would get to something like 80% for 5 seconds. At 0 stacks, 0% slow, but still an AA reset.

Apprehend Unsure, but maybe just numbers.

Noxian Guillotine Does (small) base damage, +(OK) AD ratio. Base damage and armor penetration (10% per stack) increase per stack of Hemmorage. Ult STILL RESETS, as ten stacks should not be a particularly common occurance, and should be the state Darius is trying to achieve (and the state enemies are trying to prevent).

So, this would require testing etc, but it captures the spirit of Darius that matches the original intent of something that significantly ramps over time, and the gameplay revolves around preventing Darius from reaching short-term critical mass in an engagement, while he's trying to set up limited windows for a kill. The psychology should exemplify tension, as every move he can just hold on to for a little longer has greater power when used - either getting greedy by waiting too long or getting zealous by using things too early will cause Darius to miss his chance to beat someone in a fight.


This is a great way to balance Darius as opposed to his recent nerf. Many people would love to see these changes happen. Can we expect to see these changes in a future patch??

Allowing his ultimate to work the way it did before the nerf once he hits a certain level, when the laning phase is OVER, wouldn't be a bad idea either


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FreakinEpic808

Senior Member

06-01-2013

bump