@Morello, IF you had your time again, how would you redesign DARIUS??

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Hydralot

Junior Member

01-16-2013

In my exp most of the people saying Darius is OP are the ones that get dunked repeatedly, and 5-10 stacks thing its a risk vs reward, granted 10 would take alot of poking or someway to spread it or speed up with AA items like PD but at the same time, Darius' natural ability to survive means he can have the potential to pull off someone and get his dmg ramped up. An Idea to give him some skill to add to his risk could be replacing, like Morello said, his Apprehend with an ability that doesnt do dmg, but instead could transfer stacks from one target to another. Say you are 1v1 a tank / bruiser / support and you have 10 stacks, a teamfight breaks out, could possibly transfer his stacks earned to burst dmg but ofc then has to restack. Another ex. you are hitting on someone and your carry is guaranteed the kill can pull your stacks off and save your dmg for another.


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Bastilean

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taria05 View Post
Darius will always be the, "You're in melee range, I win." champ, and he suffers a lot from it. However, it'd be nice if the numbers were moved around so he can't kill you within the first second of an engage, since a lot of champions have escapes but still die anyways.

As it stands right now, Getting grabbed by a lone Darius is about as scary as being grabbed by a blitz near his whole team.
Agreed with this simple description and desire. Also, should point out how much harder it is to get grabbed by a Darius.

Here's the rub. Darius is not Garen. He is not even Volley Bear. He is not even Olaf. He is Darius. He suffers from weak mobility a LOT more than any other champion, except maybe Alistar.

Could we give Evelyn a 10 stacks requirement? Sure she could keep up with enemies long enough to actually get stacks. Garen could too. Volley Bear has an attack speed buff and Olaf can walk through slows and stuns with 10 more base movement speed.

Darius is never going to get 10 stacks unless this is significantly changed. I would look more at 7 stacks and look at ways to improve Darius's passive move speed. Maybe make it 5% per stack and unaffected by multiple champions.

Basically, if Darius isn't going to insta-gib he needs to be able to retreat better and much more importantly chase better. This will open a larger window to react to his aggression and make Towers and Counter Play far more affective while giving Darius some play making potential as well (more opportunity to get into trouble too).

That's my 2 cents.

Honestly, a Darius that can 'hound' an enemy champion successfully sounds far more fun to play. Imagine if Darius could reasonably give chase to Eve or Garen if he had enough stacks on them. When they remove slows Darius pulls. When he has enough stacks he is 50% bonus move speed. Chase them halfway across the map and then cut them in half. Would be fun if he could out run Singed (Caveat: with enough stacks.)

Once he is out of attacking for a few he goes back to plodding. Slow map crossing. Good enemy chasing.

Could increase number of Penta-killing as well as feeding Darius.

I am sure you are testing a lot of permutations. I can't say this would fit, but I just want a changed Darius to be more fun for Darius players too, because he is easy to pick on.
Quote:
Crippling Strike No longer gets shorter cooldown with hemmorhage, but instead increases the slow % and duration per stack. At max, this would get to something like 80% for 5 seconds. At 0 stacks, 0% slow, but still an AA reset.
This would not work at all. This is death to Darius. If you aren't even going to try to make Darius more fun to play please stahp. The attack reset is really cool and promotes heavy AD. Why are you looking at nerfing things nobody is complaining about? If you want to max this reduction at 5 stacks, ok. If you want 10 stacks let people get the CD to 1 second. They earned it.

Honestly, if you removed every kill reset switch in this game Darius would be just fine. If you want to change the reset switch to a 1/2 CD at any kill or assist thats fine too.

To the guy who said that Darius does more damage than Chogath.... what game are you playing? Cho'gath is completely superior to Darius in ultimate damage and casting speed with ZERO hemorage required. Try going top as Darius against a decent Chogath. Tell me how it went for you.


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HolyMonkee

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Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Equalizer View Post
darius needs TWO things

his passive should do physical dmg not magical...this is the biggest issue with darius right now..he deals physical/magical/ AND true dmg..this is just too much and you cant dual a good darius..i dont care what you say..a GOOD darius is almost unbeatable due to the fact he got three different sources of dmg

his ult shouldnt refresh...just give it the kat treatment and like half of it refresh on kills or assists
I think a full refresh is fine. What I think needs to change about the CD portion of his ult is that if he fails to kill you with it the CD is actually meaningful. Seriously, it should be like a 2.5 min CD if you miss it. Right now you can just face roll it and it doesn't really matter if you kill with it or not, it'll be up again in no time. Make him pay for the mistake of not killing with it. Riven just got nerfed for this exact same reason. I don't see why Darius doesn't get the same treatment especially since his ult gest a reset if used correctly. I mean come on....


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Zedophelia

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We'd go back to the original idea. I should dev log Darius' development sometime.

Originally, Darius had 7 stacks of hemorrhage and the ramp-up on how much the ult did was much more stark (low stacks were terrible, full stacks was what you see now - and it only did true damage at max). This wasn't perfect, but it's much closer to the design intent; let me explain that and then you'll know where I'd like to go with him in the future.

For Darius, his gameplay should be about building stacks and keeping them up over a longer period of time. When he reaches a threshhold that's actually difficult to reach, then his ultimate should rip you in half. I'd also like an ability for him to spread stacks for real insanity with this design. Let me give you my idea as it stands today;

The play pattern is that Darius wants to get to 10 stacks to just murder people hard. The counter-play should be to get him off you at least long enough for stacks to fall off. The longer the fight, the more advantageous to Darius. Ratios and stats changed to favor lower AD, tankier build to support this.

Hemmorhage: Changed to maximum 10 stacks on a target. DoT damage adjusted to match, with something like 5 now = 7 in this model. All skills interact with # of hemmorhage stacks on the target. Auto-attacks and skills apply 1 stack.

Blood-Soaked Blade A slight redo on the Q, this still does PBAOE damage and adds a stack of bleed. Any targets hit have their hemmhorage stacks shared with that target's allies.

Crippling Strike No longer gets shorter cooldown with hemmorhage, but instead increases the slow % and duration per stack. At max, this would get to something like 80% for 5 seconds. At 0 stacks, 0% slow, but still an AA reset.

Apprehend Unsure, but maybe just numbers.

Noxian Guillotine Does (small) base damage, +(OK) AD ratio. Base damage and armor penetration (10% per stack) increase per stack of Hemmorage. Ult STILL RESETS, as ten stacks should not be a particularly common occurance, and should be the state Darius is trying to achieve (and the state enemies are trying to prevent).

So, this would require testing etc, but it captures the spirit of Darius that matches the original intent of something that significantly ramps over time, and the gameplay revolves around preventing Darius from reaching short-term critical mass in an engagement, while he's trying to set up limited windows for a kill. The psychology should exemplify tension, as every move he can just hold on to for a little longer has greater power when used - either getting greedy by waiting too long or getting zealous by using things too early will cause Darius to miss his chance to beat someone in a fight.
You should be fired because you work for riot!


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Gardna Serosin

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Senior Member

01-16-2013

Why not just give his ult a new function?

Boom initial damage, and then it makes his hemorrhage dot beef up and do a % of the damage of his ult damage?

Make the dot cleanse-able.

boom, interesting and viable counterplays.
also promotes a conscious decision on the darius player's part.. Do I wanna be tankier or do I want AD for boom boom ults?

Just my two cents.


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Roachy415

Junior Member

01-16-2013

Time to ruin another champion that doesn't even need to be touched at all? Good job Morello, one interesting thing is how much Darius reminds me of Axe from Dota. O.o


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slender

Junior Member

01-16-2013

Do not touch Darius please. He's fine as he is.


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Nurp Derp

Member

01-16-2013

When Darius came into play I wanted to leave the game. Now i just ban him if ever possible.


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General Quackers

Senior Member

01-16-2013

When you compare the current Darius to Morello's goal with Darius, the current Darius is OP out his ass.


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Serilina

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Darius doesn't need a change.