@Morello, IF you had your time again, how would you redesign DARIUS??

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Kaylnaz

Senior Member

01-16-2013

darius isn't OP but he does need a few tweaks

Lower his base armor by like 3-4

Double his mana costs


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Slothstronaut

Junior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogaflow View Post
What about completely reworking his entire kit around? Something like this.

Passive: A 10 stack scaling physical dot but remove the speed up component.

Q: Keep the new idea of spreading out the stacks to additional targets but add a stipulation that only champions who take the bonus damage from the end of the weapon get the added stacks, everyone else just gets 1.

W: Remove the slow component, cooldown reduction and bonus damage. Have it double the number of stacks on the target it hits and give him a small movement speed buff per stack on all enemies within an area of him.

E: Remove the passive armor penetration mechanic, add a slow per level mechanic.

R: Add a armor penetration per stack passive to this that scales with rank. Also make his ultimate consume the stacks of his passive on the target hit.

Numbers aside because they would have to be changed. I think this kit would balance his feel out and remove the easy all in gameplay he currently has while simultaneously expanding his gameplay options.

With this setup it emphasizes using your skills in the right order to maximize effect while also leaving room for a bit of diversity in situations. Making the pull more effective if it lands while removing the once you get caught perma slow should solve the issue most of the players who feel get pulled, get killed face. This also allows for players to choose if they want to attempt to run from Darius or run to Darius to avoid taking large stacks of his passive, which since the armor pen is based around his ultimate AND stacks rather then just upfront gives them counter play. Darius himself also gains more gameplay options. He can choose to use his W early to gain an advantage on one champion or he can save it until a crown appears and try to land his Q to spread out his passive to maximize his speed gain if he desires to run down the carry. It also prevents Darius from just walking up and spamming all his skills randomly and be effective since if he waits he can get to 5 stacks, hit W and be golden or see if a teamfight happens so he can pop Q then go for his patented chain dunking action like he can do now.
This is literally the idea that I have been looking for for months. I play a generous amount of 3v3 and Dominion because I don't have that much time to play League anymore. And honestly unless the person playing Darius is awful, cannot farm or gets shutdown super hard early game, he dominates. The idea of yours that really stood out to me is the possibility of having his ult remove the passive bleed stacks upon use. I think that this would make Darius players be smarter about the usage of their ultis, and would punish them for failing to use it right. Because right now even if they fail to get the killing blow, ignite+at least 2 stacks is a guaranteed kill. I have been concerned with the power of Darius for some time now and this idea is the best thing I have seen. Kudos to you.


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Painful Dream

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We'd go back to the original idea. I should dev log Darius' development sometime.

Originally, Darius had 7 stacks of hemorrhage and the ramp-up on how much the ult did was much more stark (low stacks were terrible, full stacks was what you see now - and it only did true damage at max). This wasn't perfect, but it's much closer to the design intent; let me explain that and then you'll know where I'd like to go with him in the future.

For Darius, his gameplay should be about building stacks and keeping them up over a longer period of time. When he reaches a threshhold that's actually difficult to reach, then his ultimate should rip you in half. I'd also like an ability for him to spread stacks for real insanity with this design. Let me give you my idea as it stands today;

The play pattern is that Darius wants to get to 10 stacks to just murder people hard. The counter-play should be to get him off you at least long enough for stacks to fall off. The longer the fight, the more advantageous to Darius. Ratios and stats changed to favor lower AD, tankier build to support this.

Hemmorhage: Changed to maximum 10 stacks on a target. DoT damage adjusted to match, with something like 5 now = 7 in this model. All skills interact with # of hemmorhage stacks on the target. Auto-attacks and skills apply 1 stack.

Blood-Soaked Blade A slight redo on the Q, this still does PBAOE damage and adds a stack of bleed. Any targets hit have their hemmhorage stacks shared with that target's allies.

Crippling Strike No longer gets shorter cooldown with hemmorhage, but instead increases the slow % and duration per stack. At max, this would get to something like 80% for 5 seconds. At 0 stacks, 0% slow, but still an AA reset.

Apprehend Unsure, but maybe just numbers.

Noxian Guillotine Does (small) base damage, +(OK) AD ratio. Base damage and armor penetration (10% per stack) increase per stack of Hemmorage. Ult STILL RESETS, as ten stacks should not be a particularly common occurance, and should be the state Darius is trying to achieve (and the state enemies are trying to prevent).

So, this would require testing etc, but it captures the spirit of Darius that matches the original intent of something that significantly ramps over time, and the gameplay revolves around preventing Darius from reaching short-term critical mass in an engagement, while he's trying to set up limited windows for a kill. The psychology should exemplify tension, as every move he can just hold on to for a little longer has greater power when used - either getting greedy by waiting too long or getting zealous by using things too early will cause Darius to miss his chance to beat someone in a fight.
This is one of the only times I have ever agreed with you. The better players (almost no one on GD) thinks darius isn't OP, if anything he is UP. I can't stress this enough, he is a PURE MELEE. (which means he has no mid-far ranged skills and/or AA) Which also means... every single NON-PURE-MELEE will beat him if they are the same skill level. Which means he is one of the easiest to counter champs in the game. (like udyr) All you have to do is build health and mobilty, that simple.


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Master Swab

Member

01-16-2013

They aren't changing Darius, this was just an exercise of how Morello wanted him to be.


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GurkenMAN

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylnaz View Post
darius isn't OP but he does need a few tweaks

Lower his base armor by like 3-4

Double his mana costs

Hehe- thats not exactly a "tweak". Thats nerfing laning into poppy-area^^

Although i agree with the direction. Too low mana costs.


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GetInTheSack

Member

01-16-2013

@Morello just as an added note I have been seeing what i believe too be a bug with darius' ultimate. Not sure if its a known issue or not but I have seen 2 situations playing him myself where his ultimate will not go on cooldown. Occasionally after the ultimate does damage and completely goes off but I did not get the kill the cooldown gets reset. Another situation similar is when the ultimate goes off and does the full animation and sound but NO damage is applied and the ultimage still does not go on cooldown. Not complaining just letting the issue be known from my end if it wasn't already.


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Kaylnaz

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GurkenMAN View Post
Hehe- thats not exactly a "tweak". Thats nerfing laning into poppy-area^^

Although i agree with the direction. Too low mana costs.
well he has the highest base armor in the game, he shouldn't outdamage everyone while also having high base tank stats


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Magical Taco

Junior Member

01-16-2013

All they really need to do is when Darius ults it removes all the bleed stacks on the person he ulted.


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iShadowHeart

Senior Member

01-16-2013

RIP Darius. Was nice knowing you man. Olaf maybe?


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Hardfelt

Junior Member

01-16-2013

So Darius isn't op, better nerf Irelia.