@Morello, IF you had your time again, how would you redesign DARIUS??

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Josh1735

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exocist View Post
I actually think 10 stacks would be too hard to build up in lane, considering malphite (my main solo top) has an 8 second cd on his q and therefore can actually back off for the full 5 seconds to allow hemorrhage to go down. Not forgetting that jax and fiora can also dodge getting hemorrhage stacks and out fight darius. All in all too much of a nerf, you would have to change the duration of hemorrhage to 10 seconds from 5.
thats the point.... they are trying to make him less easy in lane so he cant just hit 6 pull you and you either flash or die


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Xion Dominagus

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We'd go back to the original idea. I should dev log Darius' development sometime.

Originally, Darius had 7 stacks of hemorrhage and the ramp-up on how much the ult did was much more stark (low stacks were terrible, full stacks was what you see now - and it only did true damage at max). This wasn't perfect, but it's much closer to the design intent; let me explain that and then you'll know where I'd like to go with him in the future.

For Darius, his gameplay should be about building stacks and keeping them up over a longer period of time. When he reaches a threshhold that's actually difficult to reach, then his ultimate should rip you in half. I'd also like an ability for him to spread stacks for real insanity with this design. Let me give you my idea as it stands today;

The play pattern is that Darius wants to get to 10 stacks to just murder people hard. The counter-play should be to get him off you at least long enough for stacks to fall off. The longer the fight, the more advantageous to Darius. Ratios and stats changed to favor lower AD, tankier build to support this.

Hemmorhage: Changed to maximum 10 stacks on a target. DoT damage adjusted to match, with something like 5 now = 7 in this model. All skills interact with # of hemmorhage stacks on the target. Auto-attacks and skills apply 1 stack.

Blood-Soaked Blade A slight redo on the Q, this still does PBAOE damage and adds a stack of bleed. Any targets hit have their hemmhorage stacks shared with that target's allies.

Crippling Strike No longer gets shorter cooldown with hemmorhage, but instead increases the slow % and duration per stack. At max, this would get to something like 80% for 5 seconds. At 0 stacks, 0% slow, but still an AA reset.

Apprehend Unsure, but maybe just numbers.

Noxian Guillotine Does (small) base damage, +(OK) AD ratio. Base damage and armor penetration (10% per stack) increase per stack of Hemmorage. Ult STILL RESETS, as ten stacks should not be a particularly common occurance, and should be the state Darius is trying to achieve (and the state enemies are trying to prevent).

So, this would require testing etc, but it captures the spirit of Darius that matches the original intent of something that significantly ramps over time, and the gameplay revolves around preventing Darius from reaching short-term critical mass in an engagement, while he's trying to set up limited windows for a kill. The psychology should exemplify tension, as every move he can just hold on to for a little longer has greater power when used - either getting greedy by waiting too long or getting zealous by using things too early will cause Darius to miss his chance to beat someone in a fight.

Interesting.


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qarfwsed11

Junior Member

01-16-2013

when can we play the game again?? the patch is taking forever to apply!!


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Medio Morde

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Remove bleed stacks. Apply mark stacks, Ult consumes marks. This makes brawling him viable when his ULT is on cooldown. Also by doing it this way, you can increase the amount of marks it requires for full ULT damage because people will be less likely to run away while brawling him due to his bleed not taking such a large chunk of life. This will help increase gameplay also and make for funner 1on1s with him due to as you counter play you have to keep an eye on the marks and try to kill him before he has full ult damage potential.

Another idea: Again change bleed to marks, leave the amount of marks rquired for full damage potential from marks as is. Make his ultimate not have a cooldown but can only be used on a target with max marks applied. This means he can still dominate a single target in a 1on1 situation but won't be getting that pentakill in a teamfight unless he was skilled enough to mark everyone to maximum durring the teamfight. This is more fitting to him being an "executioner" as he sets his eyes on one person and builds up to dunk them.


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Draaaaaaavén

Senior Member

01-16-2013

What about Sword of the Divine? Wouldn't that just be an easy way to get stacks and thus break Darius? You could Auto - SotD - Auto - Auto - Auto - Q - W - Auto and in a very quick time already have seven stacks.


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Apathy of Wind

Member

01-16-2013

You know i see alot of qqing about how darius is over powered and only some good feed back to morello i honestly would love to see dairus move in to a more stack based gameplay would make it a whole lot more fun to lane with him and aginst him you it puts you on edge like **** im at 50% health hes got 6 stacks and im not warded what heas at around 80% should i back right now or should i try to keep him from taking the tower

i personaly love that type of game play were you have to make hard choices to win a match then do it all ez mode you know what i mean and how is LOL gonna stay competitive with champs that have little play/counter play ???


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Ephemeral Wolf

Senior Member

01-16-2013

After reading a bunch of posts here, I can't help but think the idea of the established QWER setup he has is what's preventing this from working smoothly. Noxian Guillotine doesn't NEED to be his R, it just gravitated there because it's the "oh ****" execute ability. But if it has to ramp up over a fight, I think the thing that makes his kit apply itself more effectively would be the better ult.

Idea based on what Morello posted on 10-stack: Switch Darius' W and R. Make his W more devastating to match, such as each rank in it causes Darius to hit an extra time. Rank 1, 2 hits, 2 passive stacks applied. Rank 3, 4 hits, so 4 passive stacks applied. Put the new R on a 50-80 second cooldown or something, let the slow/attack speed debuff be spread by his Q as well. Put his old ult, now on W, to a lower cooldown if it doesn't kill (20 seconds?, basically not used again unless teamfight goes on long) -- But if it doesn't kill, it still applies one stack of his passive. Also maybe increase the dunk height per stack of passive to make it more epic the better planned your stacks are and to show "Oh ****, that guy's ****ing dead." when Darius achieves lunar orbit at ten stacks. It also gives you another place to tweak numbers with the level of his new W, and makes people choose between ranking the execute and his Q (Do I need to wave clear and poke or kill single targets?). Also another idea that works for either is different levels of cooldown reset based on how many stacks were on the target when hit/killed.

Dunno if this will even be read, but I feel like thinking outside what is the norm works better here as far as solving his counterplay issues and the damage scaling. Let's say he can open the fight with flash/shurelia's/whatever/pull and nets a few people, auto-attack, new four-stack applying ult, auto attack, Q to spread bleed/slow, that's 7 stacks relatively fast on everyone in Q range but not guaranteed to be 10 until two more auto attacks when his Q should also be up again late-game to spread all 10 stacks around and murder everyone as a reward for surviving and being able to stay on the enemy team that long.


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Atyres

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It would be. That's why you shouldn't get it all the time - this exact feedback (and our mistake in being too quick to react to it) results in the Darius on live, who has little play/counterplay.
Are you kidding about the counter-play? There is a long list of champs that take a huge dump on Darius' chest, he only truly outright beats other bruisers (which from my understanding was the design philosophy behind him).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apathy of Wind View Post

i personaly love that type of game play were you have to make hard choices to win a match then do it all ez mode you know what i mean and how is LOL gonna stay competitive with champs that have little play/counter play ???

Kayle
Nidalee
Kennen
Vladimir
Yorick
Jayce

These are just 6 of the many champions that laugh at Darius in lane. He is stupid slow and cannot catch a competent player, even with his drag back skill. When out of lane he can get better, but so can a multitude of other champions.

What it sounds like really is people are mad that he "ks'ed" them. My thought? He did his job, stop being a baby about it.

But I am glad that whining on the forums is going to kill another champion. GG.


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Matter of Course

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Why is this pinned? This should not be pinned. There are so many champions that need to be remade or adjusted before Darius is reevaluated. Examining Darius is not a constructive use of time.


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HArysH

Senior Member

01-16-2013

i personally think any rework on him will make him not playable just like irelia. He is now wat he should be designed to kill.