Ummm Atma's cool but why crit chance?

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EbonValorDragoon

Junior Member

01-26-2013

I dont normally post in forums but heres my 2 cents on an item. Atma's impaler is an item utilized by champs using a Tanky DPS build (Garen/Darius/Wukong/Olaf/Shyvanna/Ect.). Normally they have less then 1.5 Attack Speed and decent but not High AD. So whats the point of a little crit chance? They dont have much AS to get Crits out and there AD is not usually all that high to make the 15% crit chance do much. Since they build Atmas at an attempt for a bit of Damage whith there defences would'nt Attack speed or maybe Armor pen be more viable? Personally i like the AS option because a few new Armor pen items were already added but Wits End is the only other AS item for Tanky DPS builds. Not to mention 400 gold + 400 gold for the crit side build doesnt do much in the way of adding to stats. It just feels like im wasting 800 gold for 15% crit chance i wont be procing much then gotta save for the combine cost. Wondering if Riot could look into this to make building and fitting Atmas into a Tanky build more fun. Red Comments / Insights would be appreciated. =^_^=


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-26-2013

It was originally an item designed for AD carries when they needed AD and Armor. It scaled on HP so that it didn't give them too much, because carries scale very well into late game with damage and having too much damage and defense is overpowered (see also, S1 Jax). When it first came out, it scaled off 2% of their max HP, or 20 AD per 1000 HP. This was a balanced number because, at the time, AD ratios were very rare. Abilities like Parrrley even scaled on AP instead of AD.

This is why it had Crit; so that it had 2 damage-scaling stats for carries. It was originally FOR carries.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Autocthon

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Or for last slot on certain tanky champs. See Nasus/Sion


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TealNinje

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMyBassCannon View Post
Abilities like Parrrley even scaled on AP instead of AD.
Parrrley never scaled on AP.

Unless for some reason it did on Gangplank's initial release. For the entirety of beta that I played in, it was AD.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Autocthon

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TealNinje View Post
Parrrley never scaled on AP.

Unless for some reason it did on Gangplank's initial release. For the entirety of beta that I played in, it was AD.
Parrrlay was the very first AD ratio IIRC

Food for thought.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TealNinje View Post
Parrrley never scaled on AP.

Unless for some reason it did on Gangplank's initial release. For the entirety of beta that I played in, it was AD.
Well, that was me blindly repeating war stories from old veterans. I wasn't around for that myself, so for all I know I could be entirely wrong about that one.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ryrok

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMyBassCannon View Post
It was originally an item designed for AD carries when they needed AD and Armor. It scaled on HP so that it didn't give them too much, because carries scale very well into late game with damage and having too much damage and defense is overpowered (see also, S1 Jax). When it first came out, it scaled off 2% of their max HP, or 20 AD per 1000 HP. This was a balanced number because, at the time, AD ratios were very rare. Abilities like Parrrley even scaled on AP instead of AD.

This is why it had Crit; so that it had 2 damage-scaling stats for carries. It was originally FOR carries.
It also only gives about 60 ad @ 4k health, 45 @ 3k, so carries and bruisers alike would generally be better off with a Maw, Scimitar, Muramana, etc. It's only really good if you absolutely need armor.

The other thing about Atma's is that the bonus AD gradually scales with level, as opposed to say, IE, which is just a huge chunk of damage at once.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrok View Post
It also only gives about 60 ad @ 4k health, 45 @ 3k, so carries and bruisers alike would generally be better off with a Maw, Scimitar, Muramana, etc. It's only really good if you absolutely need armor.

The other thing about Atma's is that the bonus AD gradually scales with level, as opposed to say, IE, which is just a huge chunk of damage at once.
It's a last-slot item for sure, but it's still efficient. They had to nerf it because of how manestream it was; it was basically stifling build versatility.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

67chrome

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Atma's Impaler has been around from LoL's release, so it doesn't really mesh with the "AD Caster" connotation "bruiser" seems to carry. The only champions I'm aware of that actually scaled ability damage with AD in the original 40 was Gangplank (with Parrrley) and Ashe (with Volley). It's important to note 1/3 of the bruisers out there at best are actually AD Casters though, another 1/3 are dedicated AP champions and at least 1/3 are committed auto-attackers that really can put critical strikes to use - the likes of Jax, Irelia, Olaf, Xin Zhao, Nocturne, among others, actually can use critical strikes as a solid way to increase their DPS, and by extent their effectiveness. And while 3-Talon Strike may no longer multiply the bonus damage with critical strikes, Vayne's Tumble doesn't either. And Ahse's Volley can't critically strike period, so it's not like Bruiser's have the short end of the stick with critical strikes by any means. Garen and Gangplank are the only champions to boast such capacity, and Garen is both a bruiser and AD Caster, and Gangplank is as close to a bruiser as any attack-damage-carry in the game can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrok View Post
It also only gives about 60 ad @ 4k health, 45 @ 3k, so carries and bruisers alike would generally be better off with a Maw, Scimitar, Muramana, etc. It's only really good if you absolutely need armor.

The other thing about Atma's is that the bonus AD gradually scales with level, as opposed to say, IE, which is just a huge chunk of damage at once.
The problem with Atma's is that EHP and DPS stack multiplicativly with each-other though. And unlike going a full EHP or full DPS route were multipliers have differing tiers of usefulness, Atma's Impaler encourages going for the cheapest EHP and DPS attributes. I mean, a unit with 100+100 HP and 10+10 DPS is going to win a fight against a unit with 100+100+100 HP and 10 DPS and win against a unit with 100 HP and 10+10+10 DPS just by merits of the fact 2x2 is greater than 3x1 or 1x3. So building Atmog's or Fratma's will generally cause you to be 33% stronger than the next guy that's building full-tank, full-burst caster, or full ADC. Not to mention anything above ~1.83% of your max health converted to AD makes you an additional 33% stronger than the next guy. Even though the attributes seem a little odd and not particularly high in any one area, having 2% scaling on HP to AD made it a more effective Infinity Edge or Rabadon's Deathcap for Bruisers than either of those two items effectivly allowed pure damage builds to be viable, what with the increased pricing in picking up additional offensive multipliers.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Thubgar

Senior Member

01-27-2013

it keeps anyone from being 100% synergistic with it, it would be too universal otherwise.

bruisers get a larger part of their damage from abilities and may not take the crit mastery, so to them it makes the item less efficient.
ADCs and the like get MORE than full benefit from the crit but dont get big HP to scale off the passive.


12