@Riot- Do you really care about our opinion?

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teh d wreck

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Senior Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerophobia View Post
Except i used to play things other than bruisers in the old TT. I never considered bruisers completely ruling that map but the new map is 100% ruled by bruisers. Pick 3 bruisers, farm and grab altars whenever possible. Doesn't matter if you barely get any kills and you get aced multiple times. The global gold from towers and farming will completely carry you late game and make it impossible to lose. I've tried to play other roles on this new map but since there is ZERO laning phase then you just get pushed out of lane by all the bruisers that everyone now picks. Nothing like the old map
I play soley glass canon ap/ad/assassins and I really haven't had much of a problem against bruiser teams. Maybe I'm just lucky or something. Some games early on its reallly frustrating and annoying and makes many people surrender early, but I've found most of my games if we just stick it out we usually end up winning.

I've been surprised at my sucesss rate with zil, karma, and Leblanc.

I will admit I think bruisers are strong early and perhaps that is something that needs some balancing, but I really don't feel that 3 bruisers = win.

Edit: A few days ago I played Leblanc with Eve and Tryn against a Cho, Darius, and Amu. For 30 minutes they systematically slaughtered us to the point of almost surrendering but somehow we managed to not lose for 50 minutes and somehow won.

I realize this is just one example and not exactly strong evidence, but I'm still damn proud we got it despite the odds and the bruiser meta.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Which is fine, except that you have to filter out those who have legitimate points about what needs to be changed, and those who just hate or are afraid of change.

Riot has more data than all of us. Their data told them that the old TT was far from where it needed to be in terms of a foundation for growing competitive 3v3. So, they built a new foundation, and that's what they are going to build on. Hey, maybe it'll turn out that altars and no wards are a bad idea, but it'll take time and constructive feedback to make that happen.

The important thing is that the old map is not coming back, so instead of wasting energy asking for it's reinstatement, let's focus on how the new map can be tweaked to something great for all. It's not there yet - we know - but be specific on how to get there.


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Aerophobia

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raherin View Post
I play soley glass canon ap/ad/assassins and I really haven't had much of a problem against bruiser teams. Maybe I'm just lucky or something. Some games early on its reallly frustrating and annoying and makes many people surrender early, but I've found most of my games if we just stick it out we usually end up winning.

I've been surprised at my sucesss rate with zil, karma, and Leblanc.

I will admit I think bruisers are strong early and perhaps that is something that needs some balancing, but I really don't feel that 3 bruisers = win.

Edit: A few days ago I played Leblanc with Eve and Tryn against a Cho, Darius, and Amu. For 30 minutes they systematically slaughtered us to the point of almost surrendering but somehow we managed to not lose for 50 minutes and somehow won.

I realize this is just one example and not exactly strong evidence, but I'm still damn proud we got it despite the odds and the bruiser meta.
Well you must have been lucky that they didnt take advantage of such an early lead. I have been playing adc's and supports and had me as support, a tank and a bruiser and lost to 3 bruisers because of the early game advantage. even if we let it drag on. they would still have both altars and could farm up FAR faster then we could sitting at tower trying to catch up.


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ngodragon

Junior Member

12-09-2012

Well in my opinion i dont like the new map personally but instead of changing it i think that they should make 2 different maps. That way the people who like it can keep playing it and the people who dont can continue playing the old map.


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Aerophobia

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
Which is fine, except that you have to filter out those who have legitimate points about what needs to be changed, and those who just hate or are afraid of change.

Riot has more data than all of us. Their data told them that the old TT was far from where it needed to be in terms of a foundation for growing competitive 3v3. So, they built a new foundation, and that's what they are going to build on. Hey, maybe it'll turn out that altars and no wards are a bad idea, but it'll take time and constructive feedback to make that happen.

The important thing is that the old map is not coming back, so instead of wasting energy asking for it's reinstatement, let's focus on how the new map can be tweaked to something great for all. It's not there yet - we know - but be specific on how to get there.
But then how is it fair to leave a broken map there for 3v3 players to deal with. Lets assume that dominion isnt out and 5's is receiving a revamp. 5v5 gets replaced with what we now know as dominion. "We used the same map but we ended up just changing all this stuff because we think it will be better." How long do you think that would last? because thats the same kind of situation going on here. Just because 3's has a smaller community of followers does not mean it can be abused. Changes were asked for to fix very specific problems and those were fixed but were came along with altars and a bunch of bull**** that makes it feel nothing like the old map.

I get it that some are just unwilling to change but that isnt me. I'd love to have the new map fixed up and problems solved and such but those problems have been labeled already and with riots record for getting things done that they say they are doing i expect it to not even be close to playable conditions even after a couple months. Why should i and others who do not like the new map be shafted with this new steaming pile of poop that is riot and riot alones fault. Turtling and jungle changes were changes that a vast majority wanted for the 3's map. Those changes were made and everything after were riots own foolish liberties. As it stands now, we don't like it, we didnt ask for it, why should we have to deal with it? And i think that is MORE than fair.

Also, at least i pointed out reasoning as to why the new map could be released. Yes, riot has more statistics then we do but they sure as hell don't have the statistics i pointed out. No one does because no has had the choice at one point in time to play shadow isles TT, or Twisted treeline. I feel that those statistics would not only help with opinions on the choices they made on the new TT but would also appease those who do not want to waste their time playing on this new currently god awful map and would rather play on the old map.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Or those statistics could be useless because some people only play what they know and are comfortable with, some people only play what is new, some people only play what is broken, and some only play what fits their playstyle. It would introduce way too many variables to make an accurate conclusion.

To your point about the map having only a few specific problems... how do you know that was it? How do you know that the architecture the old map was made on could have supported those changes? How do you know those changes would have fixed the problems without introducing new ones on the old map? Armchair design and development is easy, but actually writing the code, creating the assets, and engineering the systems to support it all is a very different beast, one that none of us understand enough to make a worthwhile argument. I'm wholly confident that Riot wouldn't have invested the time and resources into rebuilding TT if it could have been fine with a few minor adjustments.


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Aerophobia

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
Or those statistics could be useless because some people only play what they know and are comfortable with, some people only play what is new, some people only play what is broken, and some only play what fits their playstyle. It would introduce way too many variables to make an accurate conclusion.

To your point about the map having only a few specific problems... how do you know that was it? How do you know that the architecture the old map was made on could have supported those changes? How do you know those changes would have fixed the problems without introducing new ones on the old map? Armchair design and development is easy, but actually writing the code, creating the assets, and engineering the systems to support it all is a very different beast, one that none of us understand enough to make a worthwhile argument. I'm wholly confident that Riot wouldn't have invested the time and resources into rebuilding TT if it could have been fine with a few minor adjustments.
i dont know if those are the only problems but since it will take awhile for them to actually fix those things they might as well do something while we wait for that.

As for the statistics being possibly useless i can understand what you are saying but you are overthinking it. I'm not saying those statistics would be cut and dry, "this map is better than this map" kinda thing but just another variable that could be put in. They already have stats on how people are playing the new 3's map now compared to how much people played the old 3's map. Let it become a bit more stable numbers when people calm down and theres an average amount of people playing this new map. Then we introduce the old map once again and look at how 1. how many people play that map 2. what happened to the average amount of players playing the new shadow isles TT map. Then you have an accurate depiction of the publics opinion on the new map.

It's not fact or anything, but it can assumed if the shadow isles average players drops significantly and the old TT's average players is larger than shadow isles.... then they should know there is a big problem.
Or if there is just a giant surge or players who come back to play the old map and the new maps players average doesnt drop that much. That would definitely make me think something is wrong. Would show them how many people just completely quit playing the 3's map because of this.


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Aerophobia

Senior Member

12-09-2012

i dont think its completely unreasonable to be asking for the old map especially in the way i asked for it back... I provided plenty of reasoning as to why it could be brought back either permanently or temporarily while they work on the new map. Either or is fun...but them just choosing 1 would be nice


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Archer Lusk

Member

12-10-2012

It's almost impossible for people to get their feedback about the new TT out there without being attacked by the Riot Groupies that say the map is perfect. You post well thought out feedback and it gets down voted and you get angry replies saying your ideas are stupid. How can us old TT lovers help improve the new map when you have Riot's attack dogs chasing you down. They have run a lot of people out of the forum who are sick of fighting about it.

Riot! Call off your dogs!!!


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Aerophobia

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer Lusk View Post
It's almost impossible for people to get their feedback about the new TT out there without being attacked by the Riot Groupies that say the map is perfect. You post well thought out feedback and it gets down voted and you get angry replies saying your ideas are stupid. How can us old TT lovers help improve the new map when you have Riot's attack dogs chasing you down. They have run a lot of people out of the forum who are sick of fighting about it.

Riot! Call off your dogs!!!
People have different ideas and like different things. Hopefully riot will listen to those being vocal about the changes they do not like though.