Black Cleaver nerf NEEDS to be a hotfix. It CANNOT wait.

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DeciEVE or AFK

Member

12-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by kthnxbai View Post
no they are significantly weaker than prepatch. bulwark is such a hard counter to them (30 AOE MR is ridiculous). the items that made them strong (sorc boots + haunting guise + abyssal) got nerfed in their mpen.

and then you have this black cleaver nonsense and that any AD mid will destroy any of these champions and they're basically garbage.
Wait a sec there, the numbers went down on the mpen, but that's because both flat and %-based mpen as a whole are -FAR- stronger than it was, while magic res is more expensive and difficult to rush. There are more options for it, but you pay more money to get it.

Kat would probably be bad because the only real item she can use to counterbuild is hourglass, which messes up her ult.

I don't see how Diana/Eve are any worse off though, in fact, eve especially is in a good place because of new DFG.


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Neroth

Senior Member

12-08-2012

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Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
I'm still being a bit selfish in defending it, but my position is more "Yay Urgot/Kha don't suck now" than "gonna stack dese on mah top"
As someone who likes Zed/Pantheon a lot, i understand that, but really, after having 1 game on the recieving end of this strategy.... just NO.


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kthnxbai

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12-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
Bulwark is a strong item.

It's also a very lategame item for most teams.

They peak much earlier. And with the pen changes they can very easily stick a void staff in instead of Abyssal. Plus the new DFG. Plus the Haunting Guise upgrade that actually makes it relevant later in the game.

Again, Items changed for everybody. That AD's and Bruisers discovered a better setup first is a matter of coincidence.
liandra's is GARBAGE on burst assassins. how will you use it's passive when all of you damage is upfront? also, if you have a jungler, you can just rush it on them. you can easily get it by mid game, when those assassins' power spikes. crunch the numbers. no matter how you build now, you cannot get the same pure damage-ish magic pen as before the patch with similar amounts of gold


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Papa Chompo

Senior Member

12-08-2012

The biggest problem with black cleaver atm is they nerfed the **** out of resists efficiency while buffing the **** out of mpen and arpen.


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kthnxbai

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12-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeciEVE or AFK View Post
Wait a sec there, the numbers went down on the mpen, but that's because both flat and %-based mpen as a whole are -FAR- stronger than it was, while magic res is more expensive and difficult to rush. There are more options for it, but you pay more money to get it.

Kat would probably be bad because the only real item she can use to counterbuild is hourglass, which messes up her ult.

I don't see how Diana/Eve are any worse off though, in fact, eve especially is in a good place because of new DFG.
almost every stat got nerfed in efficiency across the board. the only stat that got buffed was armor penn. the power of these assassins was that they could instakill the AD carry throughout the entire game b/c they would almost always do close to pure damage to them (since AD's can only really buy QSS to counter magic damage). the new % over flat penn changes barely even affect AP carries b/c MR was so scarce in this game while armor was very cheap and effective. now it's easily the other way around with black cleaver.

don't let riot fool you with their mumbo jumbo. this patch was

1) massive nerf to junglers
2) big nerf to AP assassins and the power of APs to do true damage mid game
3) their attempt to make AD assassins like panth and talon viable only to fail by making riven, rengar, and other tanky ADs overpowered


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

12-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by kthnxbai View Post
liandra's is GARBAGE on burst assassins. how will you use it's passive when all of you damage is upfront? also, if you have a jungler, you can just rush it on them. you can easily get it by mid game, when those assassins' power spikes. crunch the numbers. no matter how you build now, you cannot get the same pure damage-ish magic pen as before the patch with similar amounts of gold
you'll note I said "endgame", you can rush guise and then not upgrade it until later, y'know.


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PandaCodeRed

Senior Member

12-08-2012

They need to hotfix that now. If I'm playing rammus with 4k hp and 400 armor i should not be getting melted against an entire ad team with a darius, jayce, lee sin, ez and nami that are all stacking black cleaver. Especially when we won early game, and all of a sudden everyone has a black cleaver and 400 armor and 4k hp isn't enough anymore


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Commander Pony

Senior Member

12-08-2012

How about if meta tries to evolve and look for another solution instead of crying "oh noes! this is not meta! this makes meta useless! please change it!"


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Pistallion

Senior Member

12-08-2012

season 2: a greatly refined game
season 3: a complete mess, not even fun


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kthnxbai

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12-08-2012

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Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
you'll note I said "endgame", you can rush guise and then not upgrade it until later, y'know.
that doesn't matter. it's an useless upgrade on these assassins. you basically do your burst and watch as it slowly ticks for 1-2 damage b/c they are low. i would rather put my gold even at 6 items w/ a haunting guise into double pots + oracles than upgrading haunting guise. the upgrade is THAT useless on assassins.