Black Cleaver is broken

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Zesty Juicers

Member

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Dragonsbaine

Senior Member

12-11-2012

@ Penserhir, the problem is the unique on it is stacking, so a player with 2-3 BCs shreds the **** out of armor in 1 hit. It doesn't stack past the max limit, but it still shouldn't be allowed to have each BC activate the unique on hit. It might actually help fix this unbalance, if only the AD was a normal stat, and the rest were all unique, with the armor shred being an active.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zesty Juicers View Post
what are you trying to show off that you can win by abusing a broken item? Poor sportsmanship man... Try showing off your wins when you have a build that isn't based on stacking 1 item over and over again. Showing variety in builds shows more skill and a better understanding of how this game could be balanced fairly.


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destromau5

Junior Member

12-11-2012

the fact that Riot said they were reworking the items to diversify builds and make them more unique contradicts what they actually did. ANY AD champ right now basically builds 3 cleavers because its so broken....they need to make it unique or reduce some stats on it like they did to the gunblade

it just makes being a tank useless because they shred through your armor


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Negrojefe

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz5 View Post
I have tried it and it still seems silly, you would get more armor pen and damage from building a black cleaver and a last whisper (followed by normal items like infinity edge and ghostblade) than you would just stacking black cleavers
You get more burst with Black Cleaver, and you get survivability and CDR.


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Negrojefe

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonsbaine View Post
try learning how to counter it, or how to focus on the ones that take it. Tell ya what, i use it, and i get it used on me. The fact that I know to watch who is attacking me and what items they got is smart gameplay. So tired of people thinking 1 build will work all the time... Builds are meant to be situational. In many ways, item builds are the part of this game that is most like Chess. You have to think ahead, watch your opponents moves, and counter them. It's one reason I'm getting so sick of people in TT freaking out if their team doesn't have a tank. You don't always need a tank. Especially if you know how to counter build. So learn all the items your champ can utilize, and never commit to 1 exact build.
Thats part of the problem. The BC stacking gives you huge burst, cdr AND suvivability. Focusing a Jarvan, Panth or Garen instead of the AD carry is never a good idea, but those champs with double black cleaver will shred your team while you focus the ad carry.

Bruisers were already stupidly hard to kill and doing tons of damage before, black cleaver redesign just maks them OP as hell.

And if double BC is used on an assasin like talon, you wont have time to focus him before he shred you to pieces.


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destromau5

Junior Member

12-11-2012

so im running numbers right now, and im using Rammus as a model....no runes, just masteries

with Rammus' W active, and having built Thornmail, the armor boots, randuin's omen, sunfire cape, frozen heart, and GA, he has 530.25 armor.

if the opponent has just 1 BC built, and no other armor pen, the armor for each successful hit that gets ignored is
1st 62.42 (0 BC stacks)
2nd 102.19 (1 BC stack)
3rd 141.96 (2 BC stacks)
4th 181.73 (3 BC stacks)
5th 221.50 (4 BC stacks)

now, add another 15 onto each of those numbers for each BC they build after the first. if they build 4 cleavers, thats over half of his armor ignored after the first attack only, PLUS thats 200 AD and 1k HP to boot. the passive and the ArP on it should be unique just so theres not so much armor being ignored after 1 hit


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ToozieMoMurderer

Member

12-11-2012

I play garen alot, and im going to tell you right now if you build 3 BC's and you cannot kill that Garen before he has time to finish one spin, your not doing something right. I only build 1 , if you build 3 your not going to be tanky enough to do anything.


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Legendgary

Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by florrie View Post
This game is so broken right now it's unbelievable. Why does Pantheon and Garen's E abilities trigger this? It gives too much armor pen and shred and too much attack damage, someone can build just these and own an entire team. I know it's being nerfed but it's not enough.

It's BS really, I've lost nearly every game since the patch because Garen and Pantheon players are building nearly just these. Even one is too strong.
Garen's spin procs the armor shred??!?!?!


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Legendgary

Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by destromau5 View Post
so im running numbers right now, and im using Rammus as a model....no runes, just masteries

with Rammus' W active, and having built Thornmail, the armor boots, randuin's omen, sunfire cape, frozen heart, and GA, he has 530.25 armor.

if the opponent has just 1 BC built, and no other armor pen, the armor for each successful hit that gets ignored is
1st 62.42 (0 BC stacks)
2nd 102.19 (1 BC stack)
3rd 141.96 (2 BC stacks)
4th 181.73 (3 BC stacks)
5th 221.50 (4 BC stacks)

now, add another 15 onto each of those numbers for each BC they build after the first. if they build 4 cleavers, thats over half of his armor ignored after the first attack only, PLUS thats 200 AD and 1k HP to boot. the passive and the ArP on it should be unique just so theres not so much armor being ignored after 1 hit
Noone builds that much armor. Irrelevant. If you are building that much armor, you are just dumb. Because health becomes more important once you get a certain amount of armor and MR.


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dennisrox8

Junior Member

12-11-2012

I know alot of people who now since the Nami patch stacl Black Cleavers, can anyone tell me why?